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Unread 08-10-2013, 09:22 AM
 
39 posts, read 15,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Docendo discimus View Post
First, are you an owner or a renter?

If you are an owner, your problem is with your condo bylaws, as well as the physical structure/building quality of the structure as a whole, as well as the specific unit you chose (if you lived in a corner unit or a top floor unit, you wouldn't be sharing as many walls). I have heard of apartment buildings, co-ops and condos that specifically state in their bylaws that they are a smoke-free community. Yours obviously does not. So even under the covenant of "Quiet Enjoyment", I don't know how much real legal recourse you would have. I'm no lawyer, though. Aren't there some legal eagles on this forum?
I am looking for those eagles. In 2006, a NY judge ruled that Secondhand smoking is a nuisance in the legal sense. I need to know if that can be used in NJ (prob. not?) and whether any court in NJ has ever ruled similarly.

No one can tackle the problem from the angle of the building structure. It is not realistic.
So why not address the problem at its source. Not legaly.
If the smokers had it in them to give more importance to the damage and stress they are causing others rather than just sucking on that death stick.... they would not smoke in the unit and the problem would be solved.

For instance, why smoke in the morning when they are on their out to work and can smoke outdoors instead? Someone please explain this to me.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Docendo discimus View Post
I live in a condo myself. My next door neighbor smokes. I don't have any issue with 2nd hand smoke at all. Even when he is on his balcony smoking, the units are positioned in such a way that the smoke does not come anywhere near my windows/doors. I don't get any 2nd hand seepage from his unit either. When I was in the property hunting phase, I automatically crossed all the properties off my list that smelled of cigarette smoke/pungent cooking odors, and also the ones where I could hear unreasonable amount of noise from above/next door. There was one unit where I could hear exactly what TV show the person next door was watching. Wouldn't THAT be your inspection test? If it was a pre-existing problem (i.e., the smoking neighbor was there first), the 2nd hand cigarette smoke would already have been there and been detectable.
I did too when I was looking. The neighboring unit sold and smokers moved in. How can you protect yourself against that possibility.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Docendo discimus View Post
Wow. This is absurd. You want "immigrants" to change their dietary habits and you're talking about "selfish pricks"? You lose credibility when you start to bring immigrants and assimilation into your argument. I'm not Indian, but I love Indian food. I also love Italian, Hungarian, Israeli, Greek, Persian, Thai, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Cuban, Puerto Rican, Caribbean and Ethiopian. I'm glad that these people didn't completely reject their cultures. What do you want people to do? Make mashed potatoes and odor-free baked chicken breast every night? I also love good ol' American BBQ. I have several vegan friends who wretch at the smell of cooking meat, but they don't lecture the carnivores around them about the wafting meat odors coming from the steaks, meat loafs, pork chops, bolognese, bacon and sausages being cooked next door.

No I do not.
However say I love onions. I decide to start cooking at 11 PM 4 nights per week. I'll be aware of not only the smell (I am standing right there, and it's filling my apartment) but also that the frequency and time of my cooking might be a bother to others. The right thing is to explore other cuisines maybe 2 of those 4 nights.

Why the hell not?

You should ask your vegan friends 1) if they enjoy being subjected to it when coming home from work every day and 2) whether they'd be happier if the people cooking simply varied their habits a little.

Last edited by bizu; 08-10-2013 at 09:57 AM..
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Unread 08-10-2013, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Northern NJ
2,646 posts, read 2,291,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bizu View Post
I was trying to clarify what you meant by putting forth the arguments you did, not looking for a "secret meaning". This is a part of debating techniques.

Sir/ Madam - I can't stress this enough: addiction is no one else's but the smoker's problem.
Not that I don't sympathize but no shortcuts can taken in "protecting" that addiction when others are around. The unwilling people do not deserve to be subjected to it forcefully.

To answer your question, yes I have (thought the OP said he hasn't) talked to my neighbor.
I was as polite and diplomatic as they come. I polite, didn't cut the person off, listen, explained that I understood their right and the habit but that it was unfair to me and would appreciate if we could find a way to cut the problem at the source since the building structure and the construction/ craftsmanship behind the walls can't be altered. I also explained that I had already sealed every little gap I could find didn't help. I can't seal the sprinklers heads, the smoke travels along and the pipes, the plumbing, the duct-work, through the electrical outlets.
Their reaction: "I'll go smoke outside", "I am switching to electronic cigarettes"... 1 year later nothing changed. They still still smoke like on the first day.
There you have it.

So what do you do when you talk to the smokers and they don't care or are too weak to stop being selfish?
You move to detached housing and stop being an impossible, oversensitive, immature, whiny nuisance. Communal living means putting up with a little bit of second hand smoke and cooking odors. End of discussion.

And health, schmealth. I know damned well that you are overstating a minor annoyance for dramatic effect. In any case, if you are so concerned about multiple impending cancers about to end your vitally important-to-mankind life, get an electronic air purifier.

Last edited by Marc Paolella; 08-10-2013 at 02:30 PM..
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Unread 08-10-2013, 06:51 PM
 
39 posts, read 15,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
You move to detached housing and stop being an impossible, oversensitive, immature, whiny nuisance. Communal living means putting up with a little bit of second hand smoke and cooking odors. End of discussion.

And health, schmealth. I know damned well that you are overstating a minor annoyance for dramatic effect. In any case, if you are so concerned about multiple impending cancers about to end your vitally important-to-mankind life, get an electronic air purifier.



You see people? This is the reaction you get from a typical smoking neighbor!



If you are a pushover, I am anything but. I am not going to move. No, I'll try my very best to make the offending party's life as miserable as I can.

Whiny nuisance? Where do you get the nerve?
Why should anyone go out of their way to accommodate a drug-addicted individual harming them?

Your advise is basically live with it, hey no big deal or let them smoke me out. Great advice, thank you.

A little bit of secondhand smoke? Yeah, right!
Not when it's day in and day out.

And by the way, "communal living" as you put it means respecting people's space and privacy by reducing NOT imposing anything bothersome.
If people found it more pleasurable to live like animals, they'd all be relocating to bananas republics and conflicts-riddled locales. It would suit you very well, except you would not survive. So sit-up and wipe your nose from snot. As a grown-up you can't blame anyone but yourself for your hurtful behavior.

Last edited by bizu; 08-10-2013 at 07:28 PM..
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Unread 08-10-2013, 07:32 PM
 
25,385 posts, read 16,966,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bizu View Post
I was trying to clarify what you meant by putting forth the arguments you did, not looking for a "secret meaning". This is a part of debating techniques.
Oh. That's nice and all, but this is not a debate and there is no need for "techniques". What I said is what I said, no need for clarification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bizu View Post
Sir/ Madam - I can't stress this enough: addiction is no one else's but the smoker's problem.
Not that I don't sympathize but no shortcuts can taken in "protecting" that addiction when others are around. The unwilling people do not deserve to be subjected to it forcefully.

To answer your question, yes I have (thought the OP said he hasn't) talked to my neighbor.
I was as polite and diplomatic as they come. I polite, didn't cut the person off, listen, explained that I understood their right and the habit but that it was unfair to me and would appreciate if we could find a way to cut the problem at the source since the building structure and the construction/ craftsmanship behind the walls can't be altered. I also explained that I had already sealed every little gap I could find didn't help. I can't seal the sprinklers heads, the smoke travels along and the pipes, the plumbing, the duct-work, through the electrical outlets.
Their reaction: "I'll go smoke outside", "I am switching to electronic cigarettes"... 1 year later nothing changed. They still still smoke like on the first day.
There you have it.

So what do you do when you talk to the smokers and they don't care or are too weak to stop being selfish?
OK, well, thanks for saying you did speak to them, although that information provide earlier would have saved me a lot of fingertip skin.

You must live in a completely different type of condo building than I do. There is no way smoke from a neighbor's unit could get into mine (nor can we smell one another's cooking through the walls.) It still does not seem as if it could be anything more than a minimum amount of the smell of smoke that you are experiencing. Perhaps you can light scented candles or use incense to provide a more pleasant scent in your unit. Just a suggestion.

Don't know what else to tell you. Maybe you simply need to reflect upon just how unimportant this issue is in the grander scheme of things. One thing that's absolutely certain: We all know that setting out to get SOMEONE ELSE to change is an exercise in futility.
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Unread 08-10-2013, 07:43 PM
 
39 posts, read 15,461 times
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I determine whether I need clarification after reading something you wrote. I can't read your mind so I ask instead.

You are lucky! Today's construction is basically wood framing slapped together. Buildings sprout up in 3-4 months. Paper-thin walls etc. I have seen units in buildings like those go for silly rent money (think $5,000 and up for a 2BR/ 2BA 1,200 sq ft).
Now if you could earn NYC money while living far away from it... everyone would have 5,000 sq ft mac-mansions.

It is not a minimal amount. It permeates closets, rugs everything. It's ridiculous.

Your last paragraph: I do but the cigarette smoke is like a slap in the face every time, an affront.



//////
This part below is written in jest, take it lightly please.

So how can I get them thrown out or get them to leave?
A slab of frozen fox urine slid under their door from time to time?
Ants infestation?
Using a fan to blow soiled cat litter supplies down the duct work?
Get one of those 500w subwoofers?

I don't know, go wild, what would you do?

Last edited by bizu; 08-10-2013 at 07:55 PM..
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Unread 08-11-2013, 07:40 AM
 
4,371 posts, read 3,368,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bizu View Post
what would you do?


If I was in your situation, I would do the following:
  • Buy a good-quality electronic air purifier. (The sleek-looking ones sold under the Sharper Image trademark are essentially junk. The rather boxy Friedrich models are expensive, but they really work, and are relatively quiet.)
  • Consider moving to a condo or apartment complex that is designated as, "smoke-free".
  • Save/invest your money so that you can eventually buy your own free-standing home.
  • Understand that it is extremely unrealistic to expect people to change their behaviors because of somebody else's likes or dislikes.
  • Understand that smoking is an addiction, and the reality is that many--if not most--smokers have a very difficult time quitting this addiction. If a smoker is going to be successful with quitting his/her addiction, it will be because of concerns regarding their own health or their own finances. Thinking that somebody will cease an addictive behavior because an unrelated person in a separate housing unit asks them to do so is...about as unrealistic as can be.
  • Expecting people to change their ethnic cooking/eating habits (even for "a few days per week"), based on somebody else's likes or dislikes is...not only unrealistic, but actually reveals a very egocentric personality.
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Unread 08-11-2013, 02:54 PM
 
Location: NJ
17,580 posts, read 16,538,775 times
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I'm guessing bizu is going to get the same responses in the renting forum. And will once again not be happy about it.
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Unread 08-11-2013, 03:34 PM
 
39 posts, read 15,461 times
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Well, I think we went full circle. Retriever not only worded it very well, he also spoke the truth.

I do want to mention that if I were a smoker and a neighbor came to me explaining my smoke is sipping into his unit, I would stop smoking in mine. But that's just me I guess....
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Unread 08-11-2013, 07:35 PM
 
1,785 posts, read 2,248,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bizu View Post
Well, I think we went full circle. Retriever not only worded it very well, he also spoke the truth.

I do want to mention that if I were a smoker and a neighbor came to me explaining my smoke is sipping into his unit, I would stop smoking in mine. But that's just me I guess....
You're not a smoker, so you don't know what you would do. You need to figure out how so many odors can get into your condo and are other owners having the same problem.
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Unread 08-11-2013, 07:55 PM
 
39 posts, read 15,461 times
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Tell me something: when smokers can't smoke, they don't: hospitals, planes, conferences and lectures, class rooms etc.

What's the difference? Why not consider you can't smoke in the apartment and there would be no problem?
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