Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-10-2011, 08:22 AM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,687,668 times
Reputation: 14622

Advertisements

There has been some talk in the news recently (101.5 this morning), but has been discussed in the transportation industry for sometime over the effect more efficient vehicles and especially electric vehicles, will have on the gas tax revenues of states, which are generally the sole funding source for the transportation trustfunds.

Currently the federal government is requiring that CAFE standards increase to 35 MPG combined by 2020, up from the current 25MPG combined. That is a roughly 30% increase in fuel mileage. While the full effect won't be felt for several years after that, it is reasonable to assume that within the next 15 years, federal and state governments will see a large drop in gas tax revenues. The problem is further compounded by the increasing numbers of electric vehicles that use no gas with current federal mandates to put over a million electric cars on the road in the near term.

Currently, several states including Washinton, Oregon, Mississippi and Texas are considering plans to tax electric vehicles on a per mile driven basis or a flat annual fee to make up for lost revenue. The current proposal in Washington would charge electric car owners a flat fee of $100 a year for owning an electric car.

The federal government is currently mulling several proposals one that advocates repealing federal gas/diesel taxes and replacing it with a per mile tax recorded by mandatory onboard computers in the cars. Another proposal is considering a "reverse gas guzzler" tax that will place a surcharge on vehicles getting more than a certain MPG average.

This brings up some very interesting questions for the state of NJ. Our transportation trustfund is already heavily depleted. We can expect that over the next 15 years revenue from gas taxes will continue to decline and may drop as much as 30% or possibly more. What should the state do?

Should we raise gas taxes to offset the lost revenue from increased efficiency?

Should we switch to a different funding system like the Fed idea of charging per mile?

What about electric cars, should they pay a road user fee given that they cause just as much wear as a regular car?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-10-2011, 09:04 AM
 
2,046 posts, read 4,951,702 times
Reputation: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
There has been some talk in the news recently (101.5 this morning), but has been discussed in the transportation industry for sometime over the effect more efficient vehicles and especially electric vehicles, will have on the gas tax revenues of states, which are generally the sole funding source for the transportation trustfunds.

Currently the federal government is requiring that CAFE standards increase to 35 MPG combined by 2020, up from the current 25MPG combined. That is a roughly 30% increase in fuel mileage. While the full effect won't be felt for several years after that, it is reasonable to assume that within the next 15 years, federal and state governments will see a large drop in gas tax revenues. The problem is further compounded by the increasing numbers of electric vehicles that use no gas with current federal mandates to put over a million electric cars on the road in the near term.

Currently, several states including Washinton, Oregon, Mississippi and Texas are considering plans to tax electric vehicles on a per mile driven basis or a flat annual fee to make up for lost revenue. The current proposal in Washington would charge electric car owners a flat fee of $100 a year for owning an electric car.

The federal government is currently mulling several proposals one that advocates repealing federal gas/diesel taxes and replacing it with a per mile tax recorded by mandatory onboard computers in the cars. Another proposal is considering a "reverse gas guzzler" tax that will place a surcharge on vehicles getting more than a certain MPG average.

This brings up some very interesting questions for the state of NJ. Our transportation trustfund is already heavily depleted. We can expect that over the next 15 years revenue from gas taxes will continue to decline and may drop as much as 30% or possibly more. What should the state do?

Should we raise gas taxes to offset the lost revenue from increased efficiency?

Should we switch to a different funding system like the Fed idea of charging per mile?

What about electric cars, should they pay a road user fee given that they cause just as much wear as a regular car?
ABandon the current funding system while we still can!!!!!!! And gass guzzlers should be taxed off the roads when that happens then a small user fee with slow increases for electric cars. Increase all driving traffic fines by doubling them. Create ways to increase tolls toll the cash ppl more eliminate all cash tolls replace all tolls with cashless tolls. Cash will no longer be accepted at any toll period. Meaning no toll pass and you get huge fee period!!!!!! cash payers are the worst offenders in terms of creating traffic jams on tolled highways.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2011, 09:09 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,546 posts, read 21,402,201 times
Reputation: 3730
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
What should the state do?

Should we raise gas taxes to offset the lost revenue from increased efficiency?

Should we switch to a different funding system like the Fed idea of charging per mile?

What about electric cars, should they pay a road user fee given that they cause just as much wear as a regular car?
I think the state should be raising the gas tax in the near future, to properly fund maintaining our roads. i understand switching to a system where you charge per mile, or per year, but i have an interesting twist for you:

the gas tax currently reflects differences in vehicles for the most part. a compact car vs a 3 ton SUV vs a truck all cause different wear and tear on a road. the vehicles with smaller tires don't rip the road up as much, and also are more fuel efficient.

so under the current system, it's fairly representative of the type of car.

with zero-gas vehicles coming to market over the next decade, obviously we'd have to account for that somehow. i'd say an annual fee would probably be best, but i would be careful about making it too high.

given the side-effect benefits of switching the fleets of cars on the roads away from gas....we shouldn't discourage it. but, people should pay for the maintenance of roads if they use them.

hopefully, someone smart can come up with a good system, but in the near term, it's insane to not raise the tax by a penny or two to at least alleviate the current issues.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2011, 09:50 AM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,693,520 times
Reputation: 24590
i like the idea of a per mile tax. i dont really know how much additional damage a heavier vehicle does but possibly figuring an equation of miles drive and weight of vehicle would probably work somehow.

it is a cute little problem and i think a flat electric car fee makes no sense at all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2011, 09:56 AM
 
1,527 posts, read 4,063,767 times
Reputation: 444
The gas tax already is a per mile tax and weight tax in a way (further you drive and heavier your car, the more gas the car uses).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2011, 10:07 AM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,693,520 times
Reputation: 24590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann77 View Post
The gas tax already is a per mile tax and weight tax in a way (further you drive and heavier your car, the more gas the car uses).
so increase the gas tax? the problem is with more fuel efficient cars, less gas is used and less revenue generated. so as you improve fuel efficiency and increase the # of electric cars on the road, you are basically beating down on the owners of less fuel efficient cars. probably disproportiately hit poorer drivers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2011, 10:14 AM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,687,668 times
Reputation: 14622
The gas tax currently is actually a rather fair method of assessing "use". The issue comes when you try to replace it with something else. I think the per mile idea is rather interesting and you could easily come up with an "impact" rate for each vehicle class and tax accordingly. The issue with that system is, how many people are going to willingly submit to a meter placed in their car to calculate the usage? You could get around that by forcing annual inspections where the mileage can be recorded, but it's a mess no matter how you dice it.

I think this is a rather interesting problem. Most people are incredibly opposed to raising any taxes let alone fuel taxes, but it is rather obvious that our current efforts to improve efficiency (which I think is a good thing) are eroding the means that we use to support our infrastructure projects at a national and state level.

Raising the tax is the obvious solution, but that seems like it is almost political suicide to even suggest at this point. Regardless of what happens with gas taxes, some solution needs to be created to account for electric vehicles. I would think the most obvious choices there are to:

a. Force them to report mileage and charge accordingly.

or

b. Find a way so that they are charged a road use tax that is billed through a dedicated meter that they use to charge the car. Basically a per KwH tax.

I think this debate is important as it has very near term implications. Within 9 years CAFE standards will be set at 35MPG. Within 5 years of that (2025), the national average will be close to achieving that mileage. At the same time, there is a strong push to get 1+ million electric cars on the road by 2025.

This is an issue that will weigh heavily in the next 5-15 years, not something that we are talking about as an issue 50 years from now that we all think we can ignore and not have to deal with.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2011, 10:20 AM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,687,668 times
Reputation: 14622
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
so increase the gas tax? the problem is with more fuel efficient cars, less gas is used and less revenue generated. so as you improve fuel efficiency and increase the # of electric cars on the road, you are basically beating down on the owners of less fuel efficient cars. probably disproportiately hit poorer drivers.
...and that is just the tip of the iceberg. In a country/state that has no real means of efficient public transit, vehicle owners without the means to buy newer cars will be left bearing a greater burden of the increased taxes.

Car's today have a CAFE combined standard of 25MPG. Chances are these are the vehicles most poorer folks will be driving in the next 10 years. Those with the means will upgrade to more efficient vehicles (the required efficiency and safety standard increases by 2025 are expected to add up to $3,000 to the cost of a vehicle in today's dollars) and the burden will not be as great. However, poorer people who need to rely on a car to get to work (there is no other option for the majority) will be driving older, less efficient cars and getting socked with the cost of doing so.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2011, 10:22 AM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,693,520 times
Reputation: 24590
how about eliminate the subsidy for electric vehicles and put that money that would have gone for that for each car towards road maintenance.

encourage more gas guzzler vehicles so they can pay more of the gas taxes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2011, 10:27 AM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,687,668 times
Reputation: 14622
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
how about eliminate the subsidy for electric vehicles and put that money that would have gone for that for each car towards road maintenance.

encourage more gas guzzler vehicles so they can pay more of the gas taxes.
lol, that doesn't really solve the very real problem of dependence on oil for transportation.

Interestingly enough, one proposal at the Fed level is to introduce a reverse gas guzzler tax that would charge people more for buying a highly efficient vehicle similar to if they bought a very inefficient vehicle.

Overall, these kinds of issues are directly related to America's complete lack of a realistic, progressive (ewwww, dirty word, lol) national energy policy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey
View detailed profiles of:

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:54 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top