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Please forgive me for the interuption. I was just told about these horrible murders and am a bit concerned. My son will be attending Seton Hall the end of this month. We live in "The OC" in Southern Cal on the beach. I wanted him to see the other side of our country. To see that the OC is not how everyone else lives. He agrees. Am I being nieve to think he is safe at Seton Hall? Newark seems so close from this end? Any comments would be appreciated. My heart also goes out to the families. I can't even imagine the loss they must feel.
He should be fine at Seton Hall as long as no students decide to burn down a dorm again.
I went to grad school there at night, and granted, that was several years ago, but as a woman, I never felt in danger there. South Orange isn't Newark.
Please forgive me for the interuption. I was just told about these horrible murders and am a bit concerned. My son will be attending Seton Hall the end of this month. We live in "The OC" in Southern Cal on the beach. I wanted him to see the other side of our country. To see that the OC is not how everyone else lives. He agrees. Am I being nieve to think he is safe at Seton Hall? Newark seems so close from this end? Any comments would be appreciated. My heart also goes out to the families. I can't even imagine the loss they must feel.
If you're talking about the main campus in South Orange your son is perfectly fine, Seton Hall police don't play games. Seton Hall Law is downtown and that is generally a much better part of Newark. I worked nights for a looong time downtown and it's very quiet at night (just be street smart). I wouldn't suggest taking strolls south of Broad St or north of Norfolk though. Even a night in the Ironbound can be charming depending on your nature
As I read this thread, and its evolving nature, you are looking at the epicenter at what makes families leave the state (as did I), and why the exodus continues unabated. Middle class people desire to raise their children in safe neighborhoods. Good school districts in NJ = much higher average house prices. So, the middle class continues to migrate further from the center of the Metropolitan Statistical Area in question, in this case, New York City. This leads to a 2 class structure in New Jersey: the very wealthy, and the destitute. However, the 'Rosetta Stone' as I see it was mentioned a little earlier in the post, and that involves the landmark case of Abbott v Burke, in 1999. The activist state supreme court decided on its own that 33 'Abbott Districts' were entitled to 40 percent of the state's education budget, while the remaining 575 school districts (yes that's 608 school districts carved into a land mass of 7419 square miles) are left to scramble for the crumbs. Consequently, these school districts are using property tax revenue to recoup the shortfall of state aid. In 2001, I moved into my house in Medford, and footed a tax bill of 3800 dollars. 4 years later, the total had risen to 6100.
That's an increase of 2300 dollars, or roughly 200 dollars a month additional monthly mortgage payment. This, to subsidize school districts where standardized test scores have not risen demonstrably over the past 8 years. New Jersey already had a pre-existing problem with multiple municipal madness. The Abbott v Burke decision only put more fuel on the fire. The common element: government meddling. And, in part, because NJ is a 'home rule' state, and people who can afford it have opted for more services as a panacea over less taxation. Otherwise, you'd see these 608 school districts merge, to combat the ludicrous Abbott v Burke ruling. So, what you have remaining is working class, middle class families of modest means importing their money from the NYC wage scale back to eastern Pennsylvania. Consequently, these counties of PA have transformed themselves into a semi-affordable, geographically extended enclave of the ever expanding Metropolitian Statistical Area known as New York City. The solution: less government interference. If families in the Abbott school districts can not manage their children, it should not fall on the back of society to subsidize them. My attitude towards this pandemic has shifted considerably since I've had children of my own. Your accountability is to your children, first and foremost. The state should NOT be solution to this problem, it has to come from the communities at fault, and a change of culture.
Municipal fragmentation is a problem not unique to the fact that NJ has 608 school districts in 7,419 square miles. Pennsylvania has 501 school districts in its boundaries as well. What is more important though than having too many school districts is having too many municipal boundaries. I know NJ has many townships and towns that each have their own governing bodies, but PA takes that step to a whole new level. For example, my own county of Luzerne in PA has 76 municipalities within its small boundaries. That's 76 different tax-payer funded boards of supervisors, mayors, city councils, zoning boards, police departments, etc. resulting in a horrible overlap and duplication of municipal services. Most of these communities were formed indepenently back during our area's mining heyday, when the region was amongst the fastest-growing and most-populous in the nation. Now that we've declined by hundreds of thousands of residents, we have little "fiefdoms" that have emerged. We have communities with only a few hundred people, such as Jeddo, Yatesville, Sugar Notch, Warrior Run, Courtdale, etc. bleeding their taxpayers dry to fund their own mayors, city councils, fire departments, police departments, DPWs, etc. instead of doing the LOGICAL thing and consolidating services to eliminate "excess administrative pork" in the budgets while still providing residents with the same level of services.
Instead of promoting these ideas, our stupid senior citizens balk at the notion of these dying hamlets "losing their heritage" by merging services with neighboring communities. Unfortunately, since the senior citizens account for over 20% of our population and the vast majority of our active voters, you'll never see a politician go against them either, no matter how outdated their beliefs may be, out of fear of being voted out of office in the next election by them. Our area's older cities and towns are instead raising taxes annually to offset rising expenditures associated with maintaining all of these independent services while battling a declining tax base, which only encourages more and more people to flee to growing suburban townships with lower taxes, ruining even more of our open space. It's a vicious cycle that can't be stopped as long as short-sighted elders rule supreme here.
I also agree with your comments about Eastern PA. It's alarming to realize that Pike County, PA is now part of the New York City CMSA (and is consequently no longer covered by the Scranton news media) and that Monroe County is expected to soon be added to that list as well. Scranton/Wilkes-Barre is only fifteen minutes from the Monroe County line, which means, technically, I'll soon be able to tell my out-of-town friends that I'm "only fifteen minutes from the New York City area," even though we're literally two hours from Manhattan! How much further is that metropolitan area going to extend before the growth slows down and people start to take a look at infilling existing brownfield sites or resort to demolishing low-density tract-housing developments in order to replace them with structures of higher-densities?
Finally, I also agree that it's unfair to burden an entire state's taxpayers financially in order to pay for "social experimentation" or "pet projects" in places like Newark, Camden, etc. It's not the fault of Wayne Township, Hackettstown, Sparta, Toms River, etc. that those other cities fell into such a sad state of disrepair, so why should they be footing the bill for it? However, I once again am clueless as to what we can do to revitalize those cities. We've now had several pages of discussion on two threads discussing this, and nobody has any more solid ideas other than "Shut up SWB and get a job", "just let them sit and rot", "move to the suburbs", or "I have no idea."
Finally, I also agree that it's unfair to burden an entire state's taxpayers financially in order to pay for "social experimentation" or "pet projects" in places like Newark, Camden, etc. It's not the fault of Wayne Township, Hackettstown, Sparta, Toms River, etc. that those other cities fell into such a sad state of disrepair, so why should they be footing the bill for it? However, I once again am clueless as to what we can do to revitalize those cities. We've now had several pages of discussion on two threads discussing this, and nobody has any more solid ideas other than "Shut up SWB and get a job", "just let them sit and rot", "move to the suburbs", or "I have no idea."
Municipal fragmentation is a problem not unique to the fact that NJ has 608 school districts in 7,419 square miles. Pennsylvania has 501 school districts in its boundaries as well. What is more important though than having too many school districts is having too many municipal boundaries. I know NJ has many townships and towns that each have their own governing bodies, but PA takes that step to a whole new level. For example, my own county of Luzerne in PA has 76 municipalities within its small boundaries. That's 76 different tax-payer funded boards of supervisors, mayors, city councils, zoning boards, police departments, etc. resulting in a horrible overlap and duplication of municipal services. Most of these communities were formed indepenently back during our area's mining heyday, when the region was amongst the fastest-growing and most-populous in the nation. Now that we've declined by hundreds of thousands of residents, we have little "fiefdoms" that have emerged. We have communities with only a few hundred people, such as Jeddo, Yatesville, Sugar Notch, Warrior Run, Courtdale, etc. bleeding their taxpayers dry to fund their own mayors, city councils, fire departments, police departments, DPWs, etc. instead of doing the LOGICAL thing and consolidating services to eliminate "excess administrative pork" in the budgets while still providing residents with the same level of services.
Instead of promoting these ideas, our stupid senior citizens balk at the notion of these dying hamlets "losing their heritage" by merging services with neighboring communities. Unfortunately, since the senior citizens account for over 20% of our population and the vast majority of our active voters, you'll never see a politician go against them either, no matter how outdated their beliefs may be, out of fear of being voted out of office in the next election by them. Our area's older cities and towns are instead raising taxes annually to offset rising expenditures associated with maintaining all of these independent services while battling a declining tax base, which only encourages more and more people to flee to growing suburban townships with lower taxes, ruining even more of our open space. It's a vicious cycle that can't be stopped as long as short-sighted elders rule supreme here.
I also agree with your comments about Eastern PA. It's alarming to realize that Pike County, PA is now part of the New York City CMSA (and is consequently no longer covered by the Scranton news media) and that Monroe County is expected to soon be added to that list as well. Scranton/Wilkes-Barre is only fifteen minutes from the Monroe County line, which means, technically, I'll soon be able to tell my out-of-town friends that I'm "only fifteen minutes from the New York City area," even though we're literally two hours from Manhattan! How much further is that metropolitan area going to extend before the growth slows down and people start to take a look at infilling existing brownfield sites or resort to demolishing low-density tract-housing developments in order to replace them with structures of higher-densities?
Finally, I also agree that it's unfair to burden an entire state's taxpayers financially in order to pay for "social experimentation" or "pet projects" in places like Newark, Camden, etc. It's not the fault of Wayne Township, Hackettstown, Sparta, Toms River, etc. that those other cities fell into such a sad state of disrepair, so why should they be footing the bill for it? However, I once again am clueless as to what we can do to revitalize those cities. We've now had several pages of discussion on two threads discussing this, and nobody has any more solid ideas other than "Shut up SWB and get a job", "just let them sit and rot", "move to the suburbs", or "I have no idea."
I agree about tax burden...the problem is Newark REALLY needs every penny of it.
We've now had several pages of discussion on two threads discussing this, and nobody has any more solid ideas other than "Shut up SWB and get a job", "just let them sit and rot", "move to the suburbs", or "I have no idea."
I truly have no idea, lol. You can't force a segment of society to give a damn (meaning, residents of newark itself). I kind of liken it to terrorists who would give their lives for their cause - how on earth do you fight that? The problem is those who don't care perpetuate the problem with the next generation.
Don't be afraid to say it. This is one issue where I'm not going to be a politically-correct liberal goody-two-shoes. In my area, the highest concentration of crime occurs in and around the low-income housing projects and other areas of economic despair. The worse thing that ever could have happened to America was "White Flight" and the segregation of poorer minorities in cities like Camden, Newark, Philadelphia, etc. vs. the wealthier whites in the suburbs. All this did was create a suburban culture of people who were indifferent and ignorant to the plight of the suffering of those in the city who were wondering where their next meals would be coming from, as well as a sense of despair and hopelessness so deep in the projects and the cities themselves that people started to turn to selling drugs to feed their families, which eventually lead to more violent crimes.
Poverty-stricken areas breed crime---don't be afraid to say it. This is why I advocate more middle-class and upper-middle-class whites moving back into the cities to balance the population out a bit and to show those who have turned to drugs as a means to support their families that there are other ways to turn themselves around and to become productive members of society. Crime in America's cities was much, much lower in the years before White Flight and urban sprawl, and there's a reason for it.
now that's real bright, asking people to leave their nice 1/4 acre lots in clean, green, crime free suburbs and move to ghettos like newark, you first!
I agree about tax burden...the problem is Newark REALLY needs every penny of it.
so the mayor can get a another car, or house at the shore or maybe the school board needs another plasma tv or leather couch, or more limos to ride around in?
newark drowned itself in corruption, let the place die
so the mayor can get a another car, or house at the shore or maybe the school board needs another plasma tv or leather couch, or more limos to ride around in?
newark drowned itself in corruption, let the place die
It was definitely drowned in corruption. I really hope that died with the last mayor. I cannot let the place die, it is my place of birth and the city I am most connected with.
It was definitely drowned in corruption. I really hope that died with the last mayor. I cannot let the place die, it is my place of birth and the city I am most connected with.
I have no ties to Newark. Let Newarkers pay for Newark. Enabling corruptive behavior by forcing everybody to shovel money into unaccountable holes accomplishes nothing more than keeping incumbents in office, the new mayor notwithstanding.
Somehow, I just can't believe that the politicians of Newark, Camden, Trenton etc. give much thought to the well being of kids in my town much less their own towns.
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Our area's older cities and towns are instead raising taxes annually to offset rising expenditures associated with maintaining all of these independent services while battling a declining tax base, which only encourages more and more people to flee to growing suburban townships with lower taxes, ruining even more of our open space. It's a vicious cycle that can't be stopped as long as short-sighted elders rule supreme here.
How much further is that metropolitan area going to extend before the growth slows down and people start to take a look at infilling existing brownfield sites or resort to demolishing low-density tract-housing developments in order to replace them with structures of higher-densities? 
