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not all unions are these evil units that you (at least from what I have read) make them up to be. They may not be perfect, but they are in quite a few cases, a hard workers last defense against unfair and in many cases dangerous work environments. My wife is not in a union, but because many of the grocery stores in the company are, she gets those benifits, they have to or everyone would jump ship to the union store with all the benefits.
where did i say the union is an evil unit? i have a major problem with unionized public jobs, but in the private sector it doesnt bother me in the same way. verizon and the union will have to come to an agreement that satisfies employees and allows verizon to remain competitive. works for me.
so you are telling me this wasnt a strike after all, it was a lock out?
you have no idea what was communicated between union and employer. even when you are allowed to sit in on meetings and feel you are a part of the process, other meetings are happening when you arent allowed to be around.
he's a few stages closer to what's going on than you are. so actually, YOU have no idea what's going on, and he has at least some idea. all you have is what you read in the newspaper. and of course, since all newspapers are biased against your precious tea party...you have nothing.
not sure about now, but i am sure that you dont really know whats going on because the story you are given was manufactured for you with probably a combination of fiction/non-fiction and embellishment to make the union look good.
yes, when the company reports publicly it's fulfilling orders without the union...that's definitely NOT manufactured for it's investors right? you simply disagree with any statement that doesn't support your argument, and then write it off as others not knowing what they are talking about.
Unions End the Biggest Strike in Years
"So workers will return to their jobs on Tuesday without having won anything concrete from the company. If anything, in addition to two week’s pay, workers have lost considerable leverage as union leaders freed the telecom giant from the pressure of a massive work stoppage that was causing major service delays and damaging the company’s image.
The latest deal has left many rank-and-file workers upset and worried that the likelihood of beating back concessions demanded by the company are now severely diminished.
“This agreement is a missed opportunity,” said a CWA Local 1106 member in New York. “We’re going back to work with only a structure for negotiations. We're going back with nothing.” She added that the company is likely to impose twelve-hour workdays so union workers could correct the errors committed by scab technicians during the strike."
so they lost 2 weeks' pay, but now they'll get time and a half for their 12 hour days that result in overtime...sounds like they lost nothing, the company needed them, and now negotiations are continueing. my guess is the company will give ground on many of the concessions (which they never actually believed they would get 100% of what they asked for), and the employees will start contributing to healthcare, and maybe reduced sick time. the big question for me would be the pension issue.
he's a few stages closer to what's going on than you are. so actually, YOU have no idea what's going on, and he has at least some idea. all you have is what you read in the newspaper. and of course, since all newspapers are biased against your precious tea party...you have nothing.
as an employee/member he knows what he is told. if he doesnt question that then he knows less than me.
he is saying ridiculous stuff and im not saying anything crazy. union calls off strike gaining nothing, thats not a good thing for them. also, unless shopaholic heard the CEO say something himself, he doesnt really know what the CEO said.
Last edited by CaptainNJ; 08-25-2011 at 09:19 AM..
yes, when the company reports publicly it's fulfilling orders without the union...that's definitely NOT manufactured for it's investors right?
i just said that to mess around and i thought it was obvious enough. when someone came back and said it wasnt true, i didnt argue with them. im sure its hard to fill orders without most of your employees. you cant just take anything either side says at face value.
exactly. if you go out on strike then return to work without getting anything, its a loss. but like i said, im impressed that the union can convince its membership that this was a victory.
how do you know what they got? the point is, the strike resulted in negotiations continueing with workers working under the current contract. this is what often happens every 3 years...working under old contract while negotiations on new contract occurs. the strikers, as i understand, went on strike instead of agreeing to work under the old contract because management wasn't budging from their requested concessions. when no one budges, negotiations slow down, and the union uses a strike as a tool to get management to consider budging.
all in all, if workers are going back to work under the old contract after 2 week strike, that indicates to me that management is showing the union willingness to negotiate. do i know that? no, not with certainty...but i'm closer to the process than you, but not as close as shop....
i just said that to mess around and i thought it was obvious enough. when someone came back and said it wasnt true, i didnt argue with them. im sure its hard to fill orders without most of your employees. you cant just take anything either side says at face value.
true. but i still don't understand why you view it as the union went back to work without getting anything. you have no idea what they did or didn't get. likely, they went back to work because management realized they couldn't keep up with the work, and is now coming to their senses and negotiating on at least some of the concessions they requested.
it's like...i go to a car dealer and say i want to pay $20,000 for this car that's MSRP at $35,000. and the dealer says...no, you pay $35,000. we can argue back and forth all day long, but at some point, if neither of us budges, the buyer is going to walk out. a couple days later, the dealer will usually call and say "how about $34,000?"....overly simplistic example...but that's essentially what the strike was for...to get management to say...maybe we don't need all 100 of these concessions...how about 99 of them? someone had to budge. maybe the union did get nothing and simply went back to work. i seriously doubt that's the case though. we'll find out when the new contract is agreed upon.
true. but i still don't understand why you view it as the union went back to work without getting anything. you have no idea what they did or didn't get. likely, they went back to work because management realized they couldn't keep up with the work, and is now coming to their senses and negotiating on at least some of the concessions they requested.
because if they got anything, there would be a new contract. nothing is official until the contract is signed.
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