Should Newark and Jersey City become one? (Camden, East Orange: houses, school district)

[cf77]

Why is it so inconceivable to merge JC and Newark? Some of you act like they're on other sides of the country. I could throw a pebble from most of JC and hit Newark.

[nybbler]

Originally Posted by cf77

Why is it so inconceivable to merge JC and Newark? Some of you act like they're on other sides of the country. I could throw a pebble from most of JC and hit Newark.

That's quite an arm; have you considered signing up for the Yankees?

They're in different counties and they're separated by a bay. Why would you merge them? If you were trying to create a "Greater Jersey City", it would make more sense to unify Hudson County before making Newark an outer borough. But why would you do that?

[cf77]

Originally Posted by nybbler

That's quite an arm; have you considered signing up for the Yankees?

They're in different counties and they're separated by a bay. Why would you merge them? If you were trying to create a "Greater Jersey City", it would make more sense to unify Hudson County before making Newark an outer borough. But why would you do that?

Thank you , I used to pitch back in my hay day, but couldn't hit the 90's with my fastball(College wont take that never mind MLB). I used to live by Westside ave in JC and trust me getting to Newark was easier or about the same as getting to certain parts of upper Hudson county. I understand there is a very small bay separating the two but trust me , they are VERY close. After all they call JC the 6th boro and that's a mile of water separating right?

[nybbler]

Originally Posted by cf77

I used to live by Westside ave in JC and trust me getting to Newark was easier or about the same as getting to certain parts of upper Hudson county. I understand there is a very small bay separating the two but trust me , they are VERY close. After all they call JC the 6th boro and that's a mile of water separating right?

At Westside Ave, the Hackensack River actually separates JC from Kearny, not Newark. Newark Bay is a bit further south, just as wide as the Hudson, and there's no road link connecting Newark and JC.

[cf77]

Originally Posted by nybbler

At Westside Ave, the Hackensack River actually separates JC from Kearny, not Newark. Newark Bay is a bit further south, just as wide as the Hudson, and there's no road link connecting Newark and JC.

That is true for the northern most part of Westside ave. But much of that area of JC , say the Hudson Mall and south you'd be facing Newark ,albeit a very industrial section but none the less Newark. Im not even sure I'd even call that section Kearny , its pretty much just a prison and a lot of 18 wheelers

[counter_inquisition]

Newark and JC should not become one. However, I do agree that these cities should annex neighboring and nearby municipalities.

In addition, I feel that many other NJ municipialites should merge together, as well as the counties themselves. A perfect NJ would have 10 counties instead of 21, and about half as many municipalities on the books.


I would envision Newark annexing all of the Oranges, Irvington, Montclair, Glen Ridge, Bloomfield, Nutley, Maplewood, Belleville as well as Kearny/Harrison/East Newark from Hudson County. The developments in Harrison and the population of Kearny already are more closely associated with life in Newark. In addition, if Union and Essex counties combine, Elizabeth and some of its neighboring municipalities could also become part of Newark. The airport will no longer be split in 2 towns, the ports would no longer be split. Newark won't share its park with Belleville, the development of Harrison won't be seen as lost opportunities for Newark, etc.

Jersey City could annex Bayonne, Hoboken, Union City, W New York, Guttenberg, North Bergen, and Weehawken. Secaucus would remain its own municipality.

As another poster has said, these cities already exist, we just need to break down the political borders. These municipalities are all sandwiched into each other already, and their merging together would save tax payers, pull more money from DC, condense developement into the downtowns of Newark and JC, and benefit the entire region. "Neighborhoods" such as Hoboken would still exist, and their appeal would even widen due to being associated with a much larger, more recognized city.

If Bergen county were to Annex the remainder of tiny Hudson county, it would also enable small micro towns like Fairview, Edgewater, Palisades Park, Fort Lee, Cliffside Park, Ridgefield, Leonia, etc. to also become part of Jersey City.

North Jersey would have 2 large and in charge cities, the tax payers will benefit, developers will benefit. Then just maybe we can spur some hope for Camden.....Just my thoughts.

[DFBonnett]

Should Newark and Jersey City become one?

One what? Septic system?

[nybbler]

Originally Posted by counter_inquisition

N
I would envision Newark annexing all of the Oranges, Irvington, Montclair, Glen Ridge, Bloomfield, Nutley, Maplewood, Belleville as well as Kearny/Harrison/East Newark from Hudson County.

What are you doing, just drawing lines on a map? Or checking out some old maps; that's not far from the original Newark grant. It didn't work out so well. I can assure you that no one in any of those places, with the possible (but not likely) exception of Irvington, wants to be governed from Newark City Hall. Nor would any of those places, including Newark itself, again with the possible but unlikely exception of Irvington, benefit from such an arrangement.

You can't just draw lines on the map, not when people already live there. You have to look at the demographics (particularly economic) of the communities involved.

If you merge a large poor community and a small wealthier one, the result is predictable as clockwork: the combined government will see the wealthy enclave as a source of tax money for redistribution to their poorer constituents, until the wealthy are driven out and the whole thing becomes a larger poor community. One barrel of sewage + one teaspoon wine = one slightly larger barrel of sewage.

On the other hand, if you merge a large wealthy community and a small poor one, there are several things which can happen. The wealthy community can essentially make no change, treating the poor enclave differently than the wealthy one. The worst outcome is that they'll spend disproportionately more money on the poor enclave (perhaps as the result of Federal or state mandates), have to raise taxes on the rest of the municipality to make up for it, and end up slowly driving the wealthy out -- one barrel of wine + one teaspoon sewage = one barrel of sewage. There are other possibilities; the wealthy community could act in ways to drive the poor out (gentrification), for instance. But I don't see any really good outcomes. In any case, even if they're benefitting from it, the poor community will resent being essentially ruled by the wealthy one.

If you merge a small town and a large one, when they're similar demographically, the small will likely be swallowed by the large. Sometimes this is OK, sometimes it is not.

There are municipalities you could merge -- South Orange and Maplewood are halfway there already. Millburn and Short Hills (no, I'm kidding -- they're already one, just don't tell that to the people in Short Hills).

The developments in Harrison and the population of Kearny already are more closely associated with life in Newark.

Harrison doesn't need Newark's problems and Newark doesn't need Harrison's debt.

Jersey City could annex Bayonne, Hoboken, Union City, W New York, Guttenberg, North Bergen, and Weehawken. Secaucus would remain its own municipality.

Jersey City is a slum with a small cash-cow area sustained because of its easy access to New York (that it took so long for J.C. to make even that area habitable says a lot about the city government). Hoboken is pretty much just a cash-cow area in former slum (same comment about their government), with little remaining slum; I'm sure J.C. would like the taxes but I'm not sure how it would benefit Hoboken. Same goes for Weehawken; how would it benefit them to be governed from J.C.? And J.C. has problems enough of its own, why would it want WNY or Union City?

condense developement into the downtowns of Newark and JC, and benefit the entire region.

You're contradicting yourself here. Development in the downtown of Newark doesn't really benefit people in the Upper Montclair neighborhood so much -- and they'd be funding it.

North Jersey would have 2 large and in charge cities, the tax payers will benefit, developers will benefit. Then just maybe we can spur some hope for Camden.....Just my thoughts.

I'm sure the poor City of Camden would love to annex rich Camden County for its tax money. But the result would be a poor City and County of Camden.

There are probably municipalities you could merge to reduce administration costs. Maybe Verona/Cedar Grove/Montclair/Glen Ridge, though I imagine few residents of those towns would like that. South Orange and Maplewood, but once you merged those you could combine with Millburn, though the Millburners would scream bloody murder -- we'll call the township Burn Orangewood :-). Possibly then combine the result with West Orange. That's about as big as I'd go, though if you were to combine only school districts you could make it bigger.

I wouldn't combine the poor municipalities at all. I think it's easier for, e.g., Orange or East Orange to get it together separately than for a combined municipality to do so.

[Marc Paolella]

All of Hudson County except for Secaucus should be merged into one entity. I propose the name Hudson City. It would be very much like Queens or Brooklyn, with each current municipality comprising a neighborhood within the greater whole. It is asinine to have all these dopey municipalities with their fiefdoms and nonsense, not too mention inefficient tiny police departments, libraries, administration, etc. I mean, what the heck is Guttenberg anyway? Guttenberg is basically a municipality for the Galaxy, Summit House a few bodegas, and a couple of blocks of 2-families. And what is the meaning of North Bergen as a municipality? Has anyone ever looked at the shape of that town on a map? Preposterous.

Secaucus has a totally different suburban character and is not a fit. Secaucus should merge with East Newark, Kearney and Harrison perhaps.

Newark, the Oranges, Irvington, and possibly Elizabeth could be another merger candidate.

This needs to be looked at. It will take 50 years, but it would save a ton of money and would eliminate a good portion of the jail population if you take out the corrupt politicians from all these areas that have served, are serving, and/or will serve prison time.

[nybbler]

Originally Posted by Marc Paolella

Newark, the Oranges, Irvington, and possibly Elizabeth could be another merger candidate.

This needs to be looked at. It will take 50 years, but it would save a ton of money and would eliminate a good portion of the jail population if you take out the corrupt politicians from all these areas that have served, are serving, and/or will serve prison time.

Newark population: 280,000
Irvington: 61,000
East Orange: 64,000
Orange: 30,000
West Orange: 45,000
South Orange: 16,000
Maplewood (not an Orange, but wouldn't really make sense not to include it): 24,000

Tell me who is going to be running things once such a merger is done? Put all the other municipalities together and they're still not as populous as Newark, so the answer is Newark politicians are still running things. Put all the poor ones together and they're WAY more populous than the other three, so you get the western suburbs sucked dry to support the rest. And when the money runs out, you have the City of Newark, maybe with a "showcase" downtown, surrounded by an even larger decaying area like much of Newark, E.O and Irvington today.