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Old 11-19-2011, 09:49 PM
 
1,920 posts, read 2,887,426 times
Reputation: 911

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
the public sector "middlet class" is not the same as the private sector middle class. the public sector's benefits/pay come from the private sector. so if they are overpaid, the private sector middle class is hurt by it. this is a private vs public sector issue, not a middle class vs middle class issue.

Again I know its hard for you to understand but who is supposed to pay public workers? Jesus? When a cop comes to your door and helps you with a problem do you suggest we bill the person helped and then pay cops? When a firefighter puts out a fire does he send you a bill? We all pay taxes that help provide these services for all Americans regardless if you can or cant pay. You act as if public workers do nothing. Do bad ones exist?? Of course but lets not act as if all of them are just ripping us off. Divide and conquer at its finest.
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Old 11-19-2011, 09:50 PM
 
1,920 posts, read 2,887,426 times
Reputation: 911
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerveza View Post
I was unaware that teachers got paid in 10 month schedules.

I guess if you want more money you're going to have to teach summer school instead of having two months off (or find a better paying district).

btw, I wouldn't complain too much about health insurance costs: private sector is way worse, ask your friends who dont teach how much they pay for health insurance you'll probably find out that you're still paying half of what they pay.

Not me my benefits are still free.
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Old 11-20-2011, 12:25 AM
 
8,270 posts, read 7,201,870 times
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Who ever said teaching was a high paying job? Who?

People DON'T go in to teaching for the benefits, just for the kids? Great. Then stop the complaining and prove it.

But because children are involved it's some big altruistic effort? At the end of the day, it's a job. Jay Oh Bee. Just like every other job in the world. Some folks work with animals, some folks work with computers, some folks work with children, some folks serve food, some folks shovel crap...they're all jobs. Those teachers who use "the children" to pretend that their career choice was about "the children" while it was really about hoping to make their ends meet with lots of and really good benefits are pathetic.

Private school teachers don't work as many days (teaching, at least), but they also don't get paid nearly as much or get anywhere close to the same benefits that their public sector counter parts do, but they are held to, at least in the private school that not only I went to but now my children do as well, to a much higher standard. How involved my kids teachers are is phenomenal. And they don't ***** or complain or protest or bring their politics in to the classroom.

Get over it already - this is NOT some major news flash. Who went in to teaching and settled in a public school system with NO clue as to the pay scale, the benefits, the time off, the union "charges"? It was just one big SURPRISE???

Now Christie is to blame for taking on the NJEA....the entity resembling the mafia and what hundreds of thousands of NJ tax payers have been complaining about for decades?

And if a someone did, how is one supposed to be taken seriously when one is so clueless?

Get rid of the union, the NJEA machine, and maybe get paid a lot higher. Be responsible for investing in your own retirement plan (like small business owners have to, those who work 360+ days a year with one or two weeks vacation after 20 years of service, no paid sick days, no matching of 401K, health insurance (no dental/no eye) costing $18k+ per year out of pocket plus co-pays).

The way the market has swung in the past 10 years, all that money invested in union retirement plans (plus the union dues)....could have bought a 4 family in a college town like New Brunswick and be collecting an additional $40K - $70K - $100K+ a year (after taxes).

People who rely on others or DEMAND/expect/let others take care of them...are useless.

Last edited by Informed Info; 11-20-2011 at 12:44 AM..
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Old 11-20-2011, 12:29 AM
 
Location: Tampa, FL
3,237 posts, read 4,878,592 times
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Must be nice to only have to work 9 months out of the year...
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Old 11-20-2011, 05:48 AM
 
1,920 posts, read 2,887,426 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazynip View Post
Must be nice to only have to work 9 months out of the year...

If its so nice why not do it? I just dont understand people on here. They say its great to do this that and they other yet all they do is complain and dont actually do what they say is soo great.
Ohh yeah let me guess a lot of clowns will say the pay isnt enough. Well if thats that case it isnt that great. Just like people bashing the upper tier workers in the private sector. If thats soo great why not do it. Get an education and work super hard and anything is possible. Complaining about everyone does nothing for you then make you look like a blowhard. I didnt know we lived in a cast society.
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Old 11-20-2011, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Northern NJ
7,416 posts, read 7,396,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bababua View Post
If its so nice why not do it? I just dont understand people on here. They say its great to do this that and they other yet all they do is complain and dont actually do what they say is soo great.
Ohh yeah let me guess a lot of clowns will say the pay isnt enough. Well if thats that case it isnt that great. Just like people bashing the upper tier workers in the private sector. If thats soo great why not do it. Get an education and work super hard and anything is possible. Complaining about everyone does nothing for you then make you look like a blowhard. I didnt know we lived in a cast society.
Will someone please forward the emphasized text to the OWS leadership? Thank you.
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Old 11-20-2011, 07:24 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
844 posts, read 2,601,441 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RB1234 View Post
MovedfromFl, Thank you for this post. The scenario you described echoes what is also happening in CA, where my sister teaches. CA used to be envied as the best state for education. Prop.13, passed years ago, slashed property taxes but ruined California's educational system. My sister now teaches HS English classes of 50 in a suburban, middle class town in LA county. Unpaid furlough days, slashed salaries-just like in GA add to this race to the bottom. Yes, NJ is better than FL and CA but not for long. I'm sorry to say this but the education reform, or should I say "deform"" Christie is fighting for(in a state that ranks #4 in education in the country) is part of a concerted effort to destroy unions and to privatize public schools-a cash cow for the wealthy. Christie is also out to dissolve tenure and institute merit pay-just like FL.
CA is in the fiscal mess it's in because of union greed. I read the other day that public workers can still spike their pension in CA by working a lot of overtime in their last year, and end up waling away with nice fat pensions; this is because unions have negotiated it into their contracts.

I don't believe Christie is trying to destroy the unions; I think he is trying to get them under control.

Look, Unions are needed, and are here to protect worker rights, but some of they have gone too far. They consistently at the negotiation table, because there isn't anyone there to protect the taxpayers. The elected officials at the bargaining table have one thing on their mind, and that's getting re-elected, so they will give away the store for the vote; heck, they have given away the store for the vote. I think most state workers get up to 14 holidays to include election day, all due to negotiations; millions of hours of lost productivity.

Negotiations are what gave state retirees free health benefits for life, and uses taxpayer money to reimburse them their Medicare part B premiums to the tune of millions of dollars. How many other workers get benefits like this? All these negotiations have led to "Unpaid furlough days, slashed salaries", and will continue to do so, as the taxation can no longer keep up with all that's been promised.

States need to get out of the pension business, and change over to 401K's like private industry has. Why does government need to offer costly pensions? Maybe they did in the 1950's and 1960's, but now-a-days they are unsustainable. However, many states are now in a catch-22 position. The can't afford to change over to 401K's, because they need the pension contributions to pay the current retiree base, and the fiscal mess will only grow worse.
I don't believe public workers should be able to bargain for pay and benefits, they should be set in stone like they are in the federal government.

So just because some governors are trying to fix the fiscal mess they walked into, doesn't mean they are trying to destroy unions.

Am I union bashing- No; am I against public workers- No. I'm only trying to say something that most of us realize, is we have a fiscal mess, and we will need to make some radical changes to get out of it.

Last edited by marc515; 11-20-2011 at 07:33 AM..
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Old 11-20-2011, 09:00 AM
 
2,391 posts, read 1,949,343 times
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marc- the reason the State has not changed over to a 401k is because in the short term it is more expensive for them than the pension. Remember politicians only think short term.

Federal pay is also at least 10% higher for the same job than the State salary scale.
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Old 11-20-2011, 09:58 AM
 
Location: NJ
22,799 posts, read 28,685,918 times
Reputation: 14687
Quote:
Originally Posted by bababua View Post
Again I know its hard for you to understand but who is supposed to pay public workers? Jesus? When a cop comes to your door and helps you with a problem do you suggest we bill the person helped and then pay cops? When a firefighter puts out a fire does he send you a bill? We all pay taxes that help provide these services for all Americans regardless if you can or cant pay. You act as if public workers do nothing. Do bad ones exist?? Of course but lets not act as if all of them are just ripping us off. Divide and conquer at its finest.
when did i suggest the public sector shouldnt be funded by tax dollars? you jump to these extreme conclusions because you wish to believe i am being extreme. public workers serve a purpose but it is in the interest of the private sector to make sure the public workers serve their purpose with minimal cost.
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Old 11-20-2011, 12:14 PM
 
1,920 posts, read 2,887,426 times
Reputation: 911
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
when did i suggest the public sector shouldnt be funded by tax dollars? you jump to these extreme conclusions because you wish to believe i am being extreme. public workers serve a purpose but it is in the interest of the private sector to make sure the public workers serve their purpose with minimal cost.

What is this minimal cost you speak of? Lets take a few of these careers and let me know how you feel about low cost. A cop that protects you and patrols the mean streets of any of our major cities should be low cost? The guy who runs in to save you when everyone else is running out should be low cost? Teachers should be low cost? If so why when I have sent my kids to Pre K did I pay upwards of 450 per week per kid. Yes a private Pre K that had 20 kids in his class. Lets do that math if you would like. Wow 9k a week per class, if its so easy to do at a low cost why then doesnt the private sector charge less?
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