U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 11-15-2011, 08:05 PM
 
20,979 posts, read 15,623,033 times
Reputation: 10270

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven1976 View Post
can't even afford to buy a house that is 150k in NJ. We make so much don't we Gov Christie? NO matter how much I crunch the numbers, when I include property tax, ins., mortage, utilities, PMI, and all the basics it goes over my net income for the month. THe only debt I have is a school loan and a monthly car payment.

I saw a few houses that were under 100k, but they need an immense amount of work and are in horrible areas.

It's very frustrating to read about people who are not even satisfied with buying a house under 500k. They should be so lucky that they can even afford it.

I love my job and I wouldn't know what else to do. I will have to somehow try to earn a second income and hope that my husband can find a job soon. Maybe I'll have to go back to school and get in more debt to study something else. Ha! Forget about starting a family and the biological clock is ticking. The funny thing is that I work in a district that supposedly pays more and I have 7 years experience.

BEing a teacher is wonderful isn't it?

Thanks for reading... I am having a frustrating week.
A) Your taxes are directly influenced by your own union. (63% of my property taxes is for schools)

B) You should rent.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-15-2011, 08:39 PM
 
Location: NJ
1,495 posts, read 4,439,196 times
Reputation: 951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
Move to Canada , and then you can probably buy a home of your dreams and have a good teaching career and lower property taxes...
I've thought about that!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2011, 09:41 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,381 posts, read 22,636,067 times
Reputation: 4504
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven1976 View Post
I've thought about that!
My Friend outside Winnipeg pays 1400$ a year in property taxes and my Friend in Quebec pays 2000$ a year. The Schools are the same in terms of quality , although Quebec is corrupt.... But living up there is pretty peaceful , people are very open minded and relaxed. I spent a month up there once a few years ago....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2011, 10:07 PM
 
41 posts, read 45,143 times
Reputation: 27
This is complete rubbish. Sure, having rare or valuable skills CAN result in higher pay, but more so it is about WHO you know. Did the leaders of Enron have mad skills and deserve that high pay? Do crooked lobbyists deserve millions? How about corrupt wall street bankers who make interest on the people's money?

No, teacher's make less money than other professionals because we as a society have chosen to pay them less. This shows how much we value education, and which is why, in part, our economy is failing. Without educated citizens and good jobs, we all fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
There is no such thing as being underpaid. Everyone is paid exactly what they are worth. You are paid according to the uniqueness and rarity of your skills and abilities. It just so happens that the skills for social workers, and teachers, and plumbers, and accountants, and real estate agents for that matter, are common and easily obtainable by anyone with a half a brain and a modicum of drive. Truly high pay is reserved for those who excel, and it always has been, and it always will be.

If one truly wants wealth, one must make oneself rare through a combination of talent and effort. Common people make common money and that's fine. Not everyone wants to sacrifice free time with their families and/or friends and/or themselves to establish residence at the top of the bell curve.

The OP "wishes" that an average teacher in northern NJ could afford a detached single family home in a great neighborhood. That is not possible in a market that is in close proximity to a very talented pool of people - those who work near the capital of the world - New York.

It might indeed be possible in other less crowded and less talented markets. So you either make yourself really great, or you move to an area where the competition has less ability.

This is not unfair, or unjust. It's simply a metaphysical reality of living things.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2011, 11:31 PM
 
13,467 posts, read 14,456,841 times
Reputation: 7650
Quote:
Raven1976;... So all these athletes, celebrities, musicians are worth the millions? Lindsay Lohan is paid one million dollars to be nude in playboy?
Nobody is forced to attend/watch football games and movies or buy magazines with naked women in them.

The professions you mentioned are only paid what the public will voluntarily shell out their money for.

There's plenty of poor (financially) actors and broke, has-been pro athaletes out there.

Try giving Playboy a call and see what they'll pay you. Offer to undercut Lohan by 50%, for starters.

Quote:
...Share the wealth to the real people who keep the economy moving.
Who's money do you want? Please elaborate on this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2011, 04:18 AM
 
Location: Northern NJ
7,405 posts, read 7,367,120 times
Reputation: 10609
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequoia14 View Post
This is complete rubbish. Sure, having rare or valuable skills CAN result in higher pay, but more so it is about WHO you know. Did the leaders of Enron have mad skills and deserve that high pay? Do crooked lobbyists deserve millions? How about corrupt wall street bankers who make interest on the people's money?

No, teacher's make less money than other professionals because we as a society have chosen to pay them less. This shows how much we value education, and which is why, in part, our economy is failing. Without educated citizens and good jobs, we all fail.
OK, time for a nice rant with my morning coffee. With that...

Nonsense. Anecdotes of impropriety prove nothing and amount to a straw man. In general, talent and skill determine pay, lock, stock, and barrel. A "who you know" situation occasionally opens a door, but incompetence or lack of ability will close that door, or open the exit door, just as quickly. Day in and day out, year in and year out, life in and life out, talent and drive are all that matter in a free society.

And "society" doesn't choose anything. So a statement like "We as a society have chosen to pay them less" is not only illogical, but absurd. Pay is determined by ability and talent, and it does not take much of either to be an average teacher. I'm sorry but that is just a fact. If it were otherwise, the pay would be otherwise. Truly exceptional teachers receive exceptional pay. But there aren't that many of them. Most generally rise to the level of their incompetence, like professionals in every other field. The fact that public school teachers operate in a collectivized and unionized field is what holds the good ones back and causes them to move to other professions. We need to privatize the whole damned system and convert it to one where talent matters, not seniority or nasty political skills.

In any case, the salary is proof of the value. And that goes for all professions. Including yours. And including mine. It's not who you know, it's how good and how rare you are.

And in other news: if education is so important, and it is, we need parents that have that as a value. Children with proper parents who emphasize education in word and deed on a daily basis are doing fine and succeeding in every walk of life. I see this every day in my interactions with my clients. Some parents are involved, engaged, and push their kids to excellence. And their kids lives and achievements reflect that, and will continue to reflect that into adulthood. Other parents are lazy, overwhelmed, and are hard pressed to do the minimum to get by. Their kids reflect those values and perform as you would expect.

Education is all about the parents. We need to provide teachers with better students to teach. And that takes place in the home, not the school. So, in the final analysis, better teachers would be nice, but we really need better parents.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2011, 04:36 AM
 
Location: Northern NJ
7,405 posts, read 7,367,120 times
Reputation: 10609
Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
That's only true if you define it to be so; if you accept the notion of a "worth" outside the agreement between the employer and employee, it's not true. If you reject that notion, you accept the absurd proposition that a really good swindler or outright thief is also being paid what he is worth. If you reject it only in a free market without fraud or coercion... well, than that ain't what we have.

Teaching's rough because the pay depends not at all on merit. Which means there's little you can do to improve your position, other than put your time in or get out of the profession.
You are context-dropping, which nullifies your position. We are obviously discussing lawful employment and compensation. And value in that realm is determined by talent and scarcity.

Your second statement is true. The teaching profession is a sewer treating an unholy mix of effluents: unionism, collectivism, and statism with an emphasis on seniority and achieving tenure. Let's just say that one should refrain from bathing in the treated wastewater.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2011, 04:49 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
9,023 posts, read 3,132,507 times
Reputation: 7108
Rough words Marc but basically true. Teachers whine and complain about the low pay but conveniently forget that they get the summers off. I think I'll try telling my boss that I'm taking next summer off, however...I'll "use that time to better myself for my profession". Let's see how well that goes over.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2011, 05:26 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
844 posts, read 2,596,128 times
Reputation: 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by doc1 View Post
Nobody is forced to attend/watch football games and movies or buy magazines with naked women in them.

The professions you mentioned are only paid what the public will voluntarily shell out their money for.

There's plenty of poor (financially) actors and broke, has-been pro athaletes out there.

Try giving Playboy a call and see what they'll pay you. Offer to undercut Lohan by 50%, for starters.
doc1, you are correct to an extent. However, the general public shells out money every day on necessary products, and hidden in those product costs are the advertising and endorsement costs that pay those "superstars" the millions and millions of dollars; and we have no control of it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2011, 06:24 AM
 
Location: Central, NJ
2,312 posts, read 4,817,306 times
Reputation: 2967
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequoia14 View Post
This is complete rubbish. Sure, having rare or valuable skills CAN result in higher pay, but more so it is about WHO you know. Did the leaders of Enron have mad skills and deserve that high pay? Do crooked lobbyists deserve millions? How about corrupt wall street bankers who make interest on the people's money?

No, teacher's make less money than other professionals because we as a society have chosen to pay them less. This shows how much we value education, and which is why, in part, our economy is failing. Without educated citizens and good jobs, we all fail.
And the rubbish continues! They make less than the private sector because the benefits are stellar. And their pay and benefits continue long after they stop working. Teachers in the NY/NJ area are by no means underpaid. They chose a career with great benefits (good for them!) and then many decide that they should also be getting high pay. The majority of private sector salaries come with few holidays, short vacation time and no pension. If a teacher becomes dissatisfied with their salary they can leave at any time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top