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Old 04-15-2012, 08:21 PM
 
1,471 posts, read 3,436,586 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ansky View Post
Part of the problem is the exorbitant salaries and pensions paid to public workers. It is very common to find teachers, police officers, and firefighters in this state making over $100k, which is unheard of in most other states.
500K starter homes with 13K a year property taxes are unheard of in most other states too. It's a vicious cycle, I guess... and most of the people responsible for blowing prices out of the water over the past 15 years or so probably weren't public employees.
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:43 AM
 
9,005 posts, read 13,763,458 times
Reputation: 9646
Quote:
Originally Posted by labcjo View Post
I'd argue we pay for a higher quality of life.

1. Our public schools are amongst the best in the nation. We have the lowest drop out rate in the entire country by a long, long shot. (Source: National Dropout Rates + BoostUp.org)
2. Our larger cities aside, New Jersey is one of the safest places to live. Middlesex, Somerset, Hunterdon, Monmouth, Ocean, Bergen, and Passaic counties are ranked amongst the safest in the nation. We also have more police officers per capita than any other state. (Source:Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed)
3. We give WAY more federal tax dollars than what we get. In fact, we recieve the least money back per federal tax dollar out of all 50 states. Basically, our tax dollars go to support states that can't support themselves, ie: Alabama, West Virginia, Alaska, etc. This is common as the heavily taxed "blue states", ie New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Illinois, basically subsidize poorer "red" states. (Source: Blue States subsidize Red States | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/20945041@N06/2994934040/ - broken link))


If the taxes in New Jersey bother you, and you don't see the pros as being worth it, there are many, many places where you can live for much cheaper. Florida, Pennsylvania, you name it. And many people chose to do this and it's their choice and fine. The rest of us obviously live here with good reason.
I just read that in Kentucky property taxes are low because they don't provide the services we do,including fire protection. There was a story in the P and C forum about some homeowner who didn't pay their fire protection bill and so the firemen didn't have to do anything.
They watched the house burn down.

Last edited by Yac; 04-17-2012 at 06:40 AM..
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:49 AM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,380 posts, read 26,755,655 times
Reputation: 4580
There are too many towns and each town has there own fire , police , and school system. If we merged the towns back to the original setup Property taxes would fall by 3-4k in some areas...
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:58 AM
 
1,319 posts, read 4,235,494 times
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- High level of corruption.
- Poor auditing and monitoring how the taxes are actually spent
- NJ has way too many governing bodies that can raise taxes
- Lack of consolidated local governments (when every town has their own police/fire chief, mayor, whole administrative staff that comes with town, etc. There are savings on overlap we miss and we also miss out on things like purchasing power)

In return we get the following...
- Great school system
- Cheap gas
- Cheap sales tax
- Good highway
- Some great towns
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:28 AM
 
1,614 posts, read 3,743,273 times
Reputation: 1182
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseygal4u View Post
I just read that in Kentucky property taxes are low because they don't provide the services we do,including fire protection. There was a story in the P and C forum about some homeowner who didn't pay their fire protection bill and so the firemen didn't have to do anything.
They watched the house burn down.
Nothing like the internet to spread rumors. The house that burnt down was not in a town at all (people in NJ have a hard time understanding that). A nearby town offered protection, if they paid for it. He didn't pay his bill. BTW the fee was $75 a quarter. Wonder what we pay per quarter.
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:36 AM
 
Location: NJ
17,574 posts, read 45,983,675 times
Reputation: 16271
Quote:
Originally Posted by babo111 View Post
- High level of corruption.
- Poor auditing and monitoring how the taxes are actually spent
- NJ has way too many governing bodies that can raise taxes
- Lack of consolidated local governments (when every town has their own police/fire chief, mayor, whole administrative staff that comes with town, etc. There are savings on overlap we miss and we also miss out on things like purchasing power)

In return we get the following...
- Great school system
- Cheap gas
- Cheap sales tax
- Good highway
- Some great towns
How does NJ have cheap sales tax?
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:42 AM
 
Location: 32°19'03.7"N 106°43'55.9"W
9,333 posts, read 20,675,711 times
Reputation: 9852
The 'red state vs blue state' paradigm is a lazy one, formulated only on the basis of PRESIDENTIAL elections, without consideration for any other elected office. For instance, what many New Jerseyans consider to be 'deep red' Mississippi's state senate is 28-24 Republican, hardly a deep red bastion. New Mexico votes heavily Democratic in almost every state level election, etc. In contrast, presidentially, I would suppose those 'deep red' counties, Morris, Somerset and Hunterdon, are a bunch of slackers, where the quality of life is lacking, because, after all, in presidential elections, these counties all tilt heavy 'red'.

That's where this argument is essentially broken. Maryland is annually a great benefactor in this dollars received vs given argument. As Soug argues, rightly: To be fair, many of the "red states" have a lot more military bases, Indian reservations, national parks, and other federal holdings than the "blue states."

This is the correct answer, and it's a rather uncomplicated one. Maryland has a ton of federal holdings, and federal employees working in places such as the USGS, the Census, Andrews AFB, etc, and the salaries these employees draw are considered to be part of those 'subsidies.'

New Jersey has the highest % of privately owned land in the country, with Connecticut. The federal presence in both states is relatively low, save for the 'mega-base' of Fort Dix/McGuire/Lakehurst NAES.

Nexis is also right. He argues for consolidation and regionalization. New Jersey, more specifically Northern New Jersey, is the only environment I have ever seen where every town has a library. They don't come free. I am not arguing against their presence, however, one must consider that these services do not come for free.
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:03 AM
 
17,877 posts, read 15,739,155 times
Reputation: 11650
But exactly how much better is our schools and amenities, and towns, and highways, and police, gov't compared to other states with less taxes, like Pennsylvania, Illinois, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York, Maryland, Ohio, Virginia? And taxes are even high in those states as well.
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:01 AM
PDD
 
Location: The Sand Hills of NC
8,773 posts, read 18,300,977 times
Reputation: 12001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
There are too many towns and each town has there own fire , police , and school system. If we merged the towns back to the original setup Property taxes would fall by 3-4k in some areas...
Seems like only a few of us understand why NJ has such high taxes.
Do away with home rule and consolidate services and taxes will be lower. Might have to lay off a few people (hundreds) but it would be for the greater good.
Glad you got it right.
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:34 AM
 
9,124 posts, read 36,275,736 times
Reputation: 3629
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
But exactly how much better is our schools and amenities, and towns, and highways, and police, gov't compared to other states with less taxes, like Pennsylvania, Illinois, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York, Maryland, Ohio, Virginia? And taxes are even high in those states as well.
That's the $1 million question. When we moved to GA, that's all we heard- "you're leaving behind so much- great schools, well-maintained roads, great services, blah, blah, blah....". I can tell you that I pay a fraction of the property taxes I paid in NJ, and even with the annual $250 car registration fees, 2% sales tax on food, 6% on clothes, etc., I still end up thousands ahead, and have no difference in services, roads, schools, or anything else.

The biggest problems in NJ, which have been alluded to above, are home rule, and bloated salaries/retirement/benefits packages for state and local employees. Until something is done about those issues (and it'll never happen....), the taxes will continue to be high. When you've got guidance counselors who were making $80-90k/year and retire with pensions that pay them $5,000/month for life, there's something wrong.

Other than proximity to NYC and the job and cultural opportunities that that creates for those who live in northern NJ, there's nothing there that can't be found in plenty of other places for a fraction of the cost.
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