U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 03-06-2008, 05:30 PM
 
Location: New Jersey/Florida
5,370 posts, read 10,128,606 times
Reputation: 3496

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWB View Post
I must respectfully disagree. I'm by no means a "have-not." As I said previously I'm in the American middle-class and am in the NEPA upper-middle-class (the class designations change because wages in my area are abysmally low in relation to the nation). Nevertheless, I know of many of these so-called "haves" who earn less money combined than my father does alone. There are MANY cases in my area of folks who earn modest salaries yet live extravagantly. I call this a "Caviar Lifestyle on a Wal-Mart Budget." It's not some sort of class envy factor at all.

Why is this any of my business, you may ask? Well, when some of these people who are maxed out in debt in order to "look good" finally collapse financially, the economic ripple effects are absorbed by everyone. This is no different than how those who willfully engage in destructive health habits (smoking, binge eating/drinking, etc.) cause health insurance premiums to spike even for those who DO make proper health decisions in life. Is that fair? Not at all. In similar fashion those (like my parents) who adhere to a strict monthly budget, have a financial safety cushion, etc. become externalities that are affected negatively when their own investments in the NYSE dive South due to an impending recession spawned partially by these financially irresponsible individuals leading to today's mortgage meltdown crisis. I also use the same argument for those who insist on driving Hummers, Escalades, and other very large SUVs "because it's a free country." It may be a nation of civil liberties, but you should expect those of us who drive fuel-efficient small cars to be irked at those who drive extravagantly large "pleasure" SUVs for driving OUR fuel prices up by your willful decision to consume greater quantities of a finite resource than you truly need simply because you can afford to. I'm a minimalist by nature, and it irritates me when I have to pay high costs for gasoline, health insurance, etc. due at least partially to the carelessness of others when if we as a society worked cohesively towards a common goal we could see such living expenses REDUCED.




I seriously hope that the "Federal assistance" that President Bush and Congress have recently approved to aid those affected by the mortgage crisis does NOT benefit people like this. You need to do your homework thoroughly before making a six-figure investment in a home. If people fooled themselves into thinking they could make payments on homes they truly could NOT afford, then we better not be using tax dollars to bail them out. We all make mistakes in life; why reward them by throwing money down the drain? I regret majoring in Accounting instead of Urban Planning. Will President Bush and Congress throw money at me for being a "victim" of a "mistake?" I think not. When you spend beyond your means you must face the consequences. I hear the whining all the time here in NEPA from people saying "We can't do the commute!!!" That's why most INTELLIGENT people do a "test run" from NEPA to their workplace during rush-hour both ways to get a good idea of what their daily commutes will be like. I don't want to bail these people out for their own lack of foresight. Why on Earth would they think a 4-hour round-trip commute would be logical when they have children to raise as well? Poor planning should NOT be "rewarded" by Congress and/or President Bush, especially not when my hard-earned tax dollars are funding it!
It's truly amazing that someone who is gay that is preaching that he shouldn't be judged in that particular fashion is being the worst hipocrite on the forum in judging people. Give it a break dude. It doesn't work one way.

 
Old 03-06-2008, 05:48 PM
 
Location: NJ/NY
9,598 posts, read 9,467,492 times
Reputation: 6725
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnyourback View Post
i don't feel like the majority of ridgewood residents are nouveau riche, though. there's a lot of old money here. the new york times even called ridgewood "quietly wealthy."
My post was not really to single out Ridgewood, but to answer a general statement a poster made about why some of the REALLY wealthy towns are not as snobby as some towns that might just be upper middle class. I haven't spent enough time in Ridgewood to really make that judgment one way or the other.
If it is "quietly wealthy" as you quoted from the NY Times, then that would mean it is NOT snobby. "Quietly wealthy" signifies to me that it does not have a lot of "showy" people. Again, I dont know Ridgwood very well, but it seems SOME people on this board disagree with that quote.
 
Old 03-06-2008, 06:32 PM
 
718 posts, read 2,074,180 times
Reputation: 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by JERSEY MAN View Post
It's truly amazing that someone who is gay that is preaching that he shouldn't be judged in that particular fashion is being the worst hipocrite on the forum in judging people. Give it a break dude. It doesn't work one way.
Most people love to dish it out but cannot take it.
 
Old 03-06-2008, 06:46 PM
 
718 posts, read 2,074,180 times
Reputation: 358
SWB, if you knew anything about the business world youd know it runs on DEBT, and people going too far into debt means someone is making out like a bandit on the other end. If your neighbors are dumb enough to buy Hummers on low salaries and high debt then tip your cap to the credit card companies for hustling big bucks outta them with high rates.

Just because you are living below your means does not make you holier than thou. Maybe some of these people you criticize, maybe their cars/houses make them happy even if it requires debt. I personally would not want to live large in the hills but thats just me. Everyone else is entitled to buy whatever size mansion and cars they want. Big houses are on the market, cars are on the lot, someone is going to buy them. You cant expect everybody to conform to your ways to live below their means and put Mercedes and Cartier out of business.
 
Old 03-06-2008, 07:32 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
1,508 posts, read 5,383,399 times
Reputation: 1418
Unhappy Read the warnings before opening that can of worms

Quote:
Originally Posted by JERSEY MAN View Post
It's truly amazing that someone who is gay that is preaching that he shouldn't be judged in that particular fashion is being the worst hipocrite on the forum in judging people. Give it a break dude. It doesn't work one way.
oh no, now you did it prepare to have another thread locked

Quote:
Originally Posted by DITC View Post
Most people love to dish it out but cannot take it.
You don't say?!?!
see comments above, oh well...

groan.....
 
Old 03-06-2008, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Polish Hill, Pittsburgh, PA
29,617 posts, read 65,648,793 times
Reputation: 15060
Quote:
Originally Posted by JERSEY MAN View Post
It's truly amazing that someone who is gay that is preaching that he shouldn't be judged in that particular fashion is being the worst hipocrite on the forum in judging people. Give it a break dude. It doesn't work one way.
How does my being gay burden our economy? Show me some solid evidence on how my "irresponsible" behaviors place an unfair burden upon others as externalities. When someone smokes and falls ill, they have knowingly put themselves into a situation that will cause health care insurance rates to rise for EVERYONE. When someone buys a Hummer simply to "look cool" as they drive back and forth to their office, this resulting increased demand for gasoline drives up prices for EVERYONE. When some snot-nosed teenaged males with Mustangs go drag-racing and wrap their sports cars around trees, that correspondingly raises automobile insurance rates for ALL males in that age bracket, as we are viewed as being a greater liability thanks to such irresponsibility. When more and more people purchase McMansions they know in advance they'll never be able to afford and default on their mortgages, it makes it increasingly difficult for responsible people to be approved for a mortgage. I see some of the same senior citizens in my area who whine that they can't pay their home heating bills or medication expenditures sitting at the casino---they can afford to "play," but when it comes time to pay the piper they'd rather ask for government handouts it would seem.

You can make all the excuses you want, but I'm tired of being a minimalist and being "burned" with a higher cost-of-living for EVERYTHING because others don't know how to keep their spending in check or make non-destructive decisions in their lives. Why should EVERYONE in a society suffer from the actions of a few?

I'm different from these scenarios because I didn't "choose" to be gay. These others DID choose to live beyond their means, smoke, gamble away their heating fuel budgets, drag race, etc. You can't draw a comparison between sexual orientation and the economy.
 
Old 03-06-2008, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Polish Hill, Pittsburgh, PA
29,617 posts, read 65,648,793 times
Reputation: 15060
Quote:
Originally Posted by DITC View Post
Most people love to dish it out but cannot take it.
Now that you folks won't be able to hurl red dots left and right at me due to your inability to debate, I'll most certainly be able to "take it." Be careful what you wish for.
 
Old 03-06-2008, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Polish Hill, Pittsburgh, PA
29,617 posts, read 65,648,793 times
Reputation: 15060
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHomeHappy View Post
oh no, now you did it prepare to have another thread locked


You don't say?!?!
see comments above, oh well...

groan.....
You're a perfect one to talk. I seem to remember a little fight back in December 2006 on this forum that YOU were at the center of, so I'd be a bit slower to excuse yourself if I were you.

If you want to play this little game, then be prepared to "take" what you "dish out" as well:
 
Old 03-06-2008, 10:26 PM
 
718 posts, read 2,074,180 times
Reputation: 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWB View Post
How does my being gay burden our economy? Show me some solid evidence on how my "irresponsible" behaviors place an unfair burden upon others as externalities. When someone smokes and falls ill, they have knowingly put themselves into a situation that will cause health care insurance rates to rise for EVERYONE. When someone buys a Hummer simply to "look cool" as they drive back and forth to their office, this resulting increased demand for gasoline drives up prices for EVERYONE. When some snot-nosed teenaged males with Mustangs go drag-racing and wrap their sports cars around trees, that correspondingly raises automobile insurance rates for ALL males in that age bracket, as we are viewed as being a greater liability thanks to such irresponsibility. When more and more people purchase McMansions they know in advance they'll never be able to afford and default on their mortgages, it makes it increasingly difficult for responsible people to be approved for a mortgage. I see some of the same senior citizens in my area who whine that they can't pay their home heating bills or medication expenditures sitting at the casino---they can afford to "play," but when it comes time to pay the piper they'd rather ask for government handouts it would seem.

You can make all the excuses you want, but I'm tired of being a minimalist and being "burned" with a higher cost-of-living for EVERYTHING because others don't know how to keep their spending in check or make non-destructive decisions in their lives. Why should EVERYONE in a society suffer from the actions of a few?

I'm different from these scenarios because I didn't "choose" to be gay. These others DID choose to live beyond their means, smoke, gamble away their heating fuel budgets, drag race, etc. You can't draw a comparison between sexual orientation and the economy.
Why is your orientation on city-data.com? That stuff is totally irrelevant.
 
Old 03-06-2008, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Polish Hill, Pittsburgh, PA
29,617 posts, read 65,648,793 times
Reputation: 15060
Quote:
Originally Posted by DITC View Post
Why is your orientation on city-data.com? That stuff is totally irrelevant.
I didn't bring my sexual orientation into the fray. Another poster did. It's funny though because I'll give this until the late-morning before someone implies that I was the one who drug my sexual orientation into the debate in order to "martyr" myself or vie for attention, which did not occur. Someone ELSE drew a non-existent parallel between me requesting tolerance in another thread and about how I'm supposedly being a hypocrite for not likewise extending that same courtesy that I request from others to those who make destructive CHOICES in life. I've argued this so much that I often turn blue in the face, but I'll say it again---sexual orientations are NOT choices. If I could consciously make myself heterosexual, I would have done so ages ago. It would have saved me years of suicidal tendencies and disappointing my family, and it will save me from losing an election in the future should I make a bid for city council against those who overzealously platform on having "family values" to discredit or belittle me.

Smoking IS a choice. Nobody forces that cigarette into your mouth, and when you light up you make the choice to burden everyone else around you with higher health care premiums to overcompensate for your higher risk of illness. Binge drinking/easting ARE choices. Nobody forces that extra can of Budweiser or that extra chili cheese dog down your gullet, yet society as a whole pays the price for those destructive choices in terms of higher health care costs primarily but also indirectly in many other ways. Driving an excessive SUV just to show off IS a choice. Nobody forces those Hummer keys in your hand as you commute back and forth solo to your cubicle, yet doing so increases demand for a scarce resource, which is why I now pay $3.29/gallon to fuel up my FUEL-EFFICIENT SMALL CAR! My main beef with those who intentionally purchase homes they can't afford because they are incessantly in a quest to "keep up with the Jones's" is that this is just one more case of how SELFISH our society has become in how NOBODY stops to consider how ANY of their actions might negatively impact others.

You probably can't tell from this forum where I've been in more than my fair share of heated debates, but in real life I'm a pacifist and someone who seeks to maximize the pleasure of others. If everyone stopped for two seconds before making foolish decisions, then most of our nation's domestic issues could be largely mitigated. I'll reiterate that not $1 of my tax dollars should be utilized by President Bush or Congress to be placed into the pockets of those who purchased McMansions in the Poconos and then didn't want to pay for them because they didn't do their HOMEWORK! I know most of you would rather not hear this, but I went through a brief "one-night stand" phase in my life when I was 19-20. If I had indeed developed some sort of STD during that period (thank God I didn't), I wouldn't expect the government to come to my aid by supplementing my AIDS medication for my own destructive decisions. I'm sure 99.9% of others would be waiting with their hands out though for similar assistance.

We've become a nation where NOBODY is held accountable for disregarding lucid behavior. Not only that, but we now reward people for being irresponsible by bailing them out of their mortgages? If you buy a home too large and expensive for your family's budget, and you KNOW this before signing on the dotted line, then suffer for it. When I do stupid things I gladly accept my punishment, learn from my mistake, and then move on. (Receiving temporary banishments from this forum is a fine example of this). We're now breeding a nation where people are unaware of negative ramifications being possible for making foolish decisions because "someone" will bail them out. How is this a good thing? We've become a nation of coddlers. Why? Let me clarify that I am NOT talking about EXTREME circumstances (a family potentially losing their home because a father was tragically killed in Iraq and the mother is disabled and can not work, for example), but I'm referencing the MAJORITY of "hard times" that people endure due to their own short-sightedness in life. I know of many folks who share my resentment and anger that our financial solvancy is being mocked by throwing money at those who dug themselves so far into debt they had no way out. Balancing a checkbook isn't rocket science, nor is being aware of your APR (and more importantly your EAR).

I know I'll once again receive voluminous rebuttals to my own reply that will NOT debate me but will rather either take personal jabs at me for being a hypocrite/moron or continue to make excuses for others' mistakes in life, but as long as my reputation can no longer be used as "collateral damage," then "debate" we shall! It's not my intention to merely ruffle feathers. I honestly just wish to know why so many people see no fault in people living beyond their means and then getting free handouts on OUR TAB to account for it? I come home from work often with bloodied fingers and a sore back. It enrages me to consider that my wages partially supplement President Bush (and Congress') "relief" package for those who are "victims" of the mortgage crisis. I sliced my finger open this evening so some lower-middle-class woman from The Bronx could overextend herself into buying a Pocono McMansion and then be "bailed out" for it? That makes me feel REALLY perky let me tell you.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top