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It would be very difficult to kill 50-100 people in a minute even with a military gun. Impossible with any ordinary gun.
But the point is that it is the person who decides to kill another; the availability of a gun is not going to change the mindset of a terrorist, criminal, or sociopath. Strict gun laws, even against former felons, don't change the probability of that. They just cost people and government more money and take away more of our freedoms.
I absolutely agree that if someone wants to kill people, they will find a way. A gun is really nothing more then a tool. However, given the relatively easy access to firearms it has become the preferred tool for many people. The person, like the guy in Colorado or at the Sikh Temple would commit their crimes regardless, they would just find another way. The only thing a gun ban may prevent would be the ease of committing a crime of passion or making a snap choice. However, most of those crimes happen with legally owned firearms.
All of that aside though, do you not at the very least recognize that the reason that gun laws like the ones in NJ are ineffective in stopping criminals from getting guns is that the guns are simply purchased in a state with far less controls and often done with straw purchasers? This article has the statistics on the origin of guns used in crimes in NJ:
Law enforcement agencies were able to identify the sources of a little more than half of the 4,500 crime guns recovered in New Jersey during 2009, according to data kept by the ATF. About 1,200 weapons were bought in Pennsylvania, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia and Florida; 602 were legally purchased in New Jersey and the remainder were traced to elsewhere in the U.S., as well as Puerto Rico and Guam.
So, of the ~2,250 guns they could determine an origin for, only 602, or roughly 27% were legally purchased weapons in NJ, the remainder were guns purchased from other states with lax gun laws. NJ's laws don't prevent criminals from getting guns, because our neighbors have much laxer gun laws.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaMc46
Agree totally. When I lived in NJ it seemed like there was a gun-related violence story on the news each night. Now, I live in a state with virtually no gun control and last year, according to FBI statistics, there were 2 gun-related murders here.
wouldn't choose to own one, but I don't see why the right should be taken away from law-abiding NJ residents. It doesn't seem like the current laws have deterred gun violence; criminals will find a way to buy them legal or not.
NJ is a relatively safe state, midpack overall nationally despite having a large population and the highest population density. You see the stories more simply as a product of the population density and the sheer number of people. If you look at the crime statistics and compare them to gun ownership rates and gun control laws, there is almost zero correlation between the two. If anything, the statistics would hint that more gun control resulted in lower relative crime rates, but I don't personally think there is any case to be made between gun laws/ownership and crime rates. Some of the highest crime states in the country on a per capita basis also have very lax gun control laws and high rates of gun ownership.
As for the reason the current laws seem ineffectual for a state like NJ, see above.
Sure there is. It's called ammonium nitrate and our neighbors in South Brunswick along Friendship Road and a few other locations in the township can get lots of it very easily. Go check out the Oklahoma City bombing and WTC 1993 for reference.
The harsh reality is that the psychopath will find the means regardless of the laws in place to carry out his/her plans. If anything, it's the psychopaths lusting for control who demand greater laws restricting gun ownership who are the clear and present danger to society.
Completely, completely agree with this. No matter what weapon is or isn't allowed, these crazy people will STILL find ways to kill. Outlawing or allowing guns isn't the problem, it's the people that are the problem. Not everybody is all there upstairs if you know what I mean, and people like them ruin it for everyone else but unfortunately these types of things need to be considered before we allow Wal-Marts in the south to sell guns like they sell ice cream.
Also, the second amendment was written two hundred years ago. I think times have changed in many, many ways. I'm all for the Constitution, I really am, but come on.
Also, the second amendment was written two hundred years ago. I think times have changed in many, many ways. I'm all for the Constitution, I really am, but come on.
We should take them in order, then. Let's get rid of the first amendment first; times have changed, free speech is too dangerous. So is religion.
We should take them in order, then. Let's get rid of the first amendment first; times have changed, free speech is too dangerous. So is religion.
If even a couple of SC justices think the idea of assault weapons in the hands of regular citizens is not what the Framers intended (and I don't think they did), the 2nd amendment could have limits to it. We'll see in the future.
reading some of these comments i just cant believe how naive these people are. We made drugs illegal and they can be bought anywhere even in high schools. Laws are made for honest people. A shotgun is the most horrific weapon ever made the amount of people it can kill with one shot and the damage it does is horredious. it scatters 12 or more bullets with ever shot. All these "assualt weapons" are is A regular hunting rifle just the color black. If you make your decisions on how dangerous something is by looks and color my friend you need to get off here and see a shrink. 1% of weapon violence in the usa is with assualt weapons more people died from alcohol related deaths in 1 year then by gun violence in the past 20 years more people died falling down steps then by assualt weapons ,so if you wanna save lives ban alcohol, cell phones, and steps dont like our laws MOVE
reading some of these comments i just cant believe how naive these people are. We made drugs illegal and they can be bought anywhere even in high schools. Laws are made for honest people. A shotgun is the most horrific weapon ever made the amount of people it can kill with one shot and the damage it does is horredious. it scatters 12 or more bullets with ever shot. All these "assualt weapons" are is A regular hunting rifle just the color black. If you make your decisions on how dangerous something is by looks and color my friend you need to get off here and see a shrink. 1% of weapon violence in the usa is with assualt weapons more people died from alcohol related deaths in 1 year then by gun violence in the past 20 years more people died falling down steps then by assualt weapons ,so if you wanna save lives ban alcohol, cell phones, and steps dont like our laws MOVE
OK, I'll bite. How many schoolchildren were massacred by cell phones last December?
reading some of these comments i just cant believe how naive these people are. We made drugs illegal and they can be bought anywhere even in high schools. Laws are made for honest people. A shotgun is the most horrific weapon ever made the amount of people it can kill with one shot and the damage it does is horredious. it scatters 12 or more bullets with ever shot. All these "assualt weapons" are is A regular hunting rifle just the color black. If you make your decisions on how dangerous something is by looks and color my friend you need to get off here and see a shrink. 1% of weapon violence in the usa is with assualt weapons more people died from alcohol related deaths in 1 year then by gun violence in the past 20 years more people died falling down steps then by assualt weapons ,so if you wanna save lives ban alcohol, cell phones, and steps dont like our laws MOVE
This seems like an appropriate response to you with your drug analogy:
The root cause of the prevalence of deadly violence in America isn't necessarily the relatively easy availability of guns, but a variety of cultural reasons with a couple of them being structural to the essence of American culture. Generally speaking, Americans have always been fairly violent on an individual level compared to other Westerners.
Last edited by TylerJAX; 04-24-2013 at 06:14 PM..
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