U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-05-2007, 07:20 AM
 
Location: Sneads Ferry NC/Randolph NJ/Cape Coral FL
12,925 posts, read 24,048,548 times
Reputation: 10739

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by 66nexus View Post
I was watching on News12 the other night that Hilary Duff was on set in a movie partly taking place in AP
well I'm going to start reading the Asbury park Press and research.
We plan on getting a townhouse down south but for winter only when we retire..I could NEVAH NEVAH give up my citizenship in NJ....and maybe Asbury will work in my favor
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-05-2007, 08:05 AM
 
Location: High Bridge, NJ
3,858 posts, read 8,050,291 times
Reputation: 3317
Quote:
Originally Posted by njkate View Post
see I don't entirely trust Cory Booker..in many many ways he reminds me of a young Ray Nagin of New Orleans....hope my gut instinct is wrong...
Hardly. There are two schools of African-American leadership-the Al Sharpton "Culture of Victimhood" School, and the J.C. Watts-Bill Cosby-Clarence Thomas "Lift Thine Own Self Up" School. Nagin is clearly a member of the former and Booker a member of the latter. If Booker played the kind of politics Nagin does he would have been a shoe in on his first Mayoral run. Instead he had one loss by a razor thin margin and a hard fought win the second time around. He had to get the black community to trust his message of hope and real leadership-something that's been lacking in that community for a long long time. Adrian Fenty, the new Mayor of Washington, D.C. is another example. I think what we're seeing is a new generation of black leadership tired of the empty promises and "Culture of Victimhood" they grew up with. These folks are a return to the Civil Rights pioneers of the 1950s and 60s. Martin Luther King is a just a figurehead for people like Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, but they don't embrace his real message. These new leaders do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2007, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Sneads Ferry NC/Randolph NJ/Cape Coral FL
12,925 posts, read 24,048,548 times
Reputation: 10739
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badfish740 View Post
Hardly. There are two schools of African-American leadership-the Al Sharpton "Culture of Victimhood" School, and the J.C. Watts-Bill Cosby-Clarence Thomas "Lift Thine Own Self Up" School. Nagin is clearly a member of the former and Booker a member of the latter. If Booker played the kind of politics Nagin does he would have been a shoe in on his first Mayoral run. Instead he had one loss by a razor thin margin and hard fought win the second time around. He had to get the black community to trust his message of hope and real leadership-something that's been lacking in that community for a long long time.

Well for Newarks future I certainly hope you are correct and I am wrong
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2007, 08:35 AM
 
42 posts, read 45,047 times
Reputation: 12
Hello all,

This being my first post on this message board I'd like to say that first I'm a NJ resident all my life and a conservative voter trapped in a Blue State. I speak my mind open and freely and agree for the most part that the cities of NJ have changed over the last 50 years. With that said, I'd also like to say that the people who are living in these cities are responsible for their actions.

Back when these cities were prosperous, they were not government programs for low income families, section 8, welfare, affordable housing. None of that stuff existed and the people there did what they had to do to make a decent living.

I look forward to more interesting post and conversation with all of you in the future. Stay classy NJ
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2007, 08:44 AM
 
Location: High Bridge, NJ
3,858 posts, read 8,050,291 times
Reputation: 3317
Did you read my OP?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2007, 09:19 AM
 
Location: High Bridge
2,736 posts, read 8,544,508 times
Reputation: 665
I was born in Elizabeth General Hospital, went through the Elizabeth school system, and still have friends who live there. Heres a tidbit of things that happened as we sold the house.

My dad started out his post-Vietnam family life as a truck driver, and continued going to Kean for years, improving himself to the point where he became management. He bought a simple 2 story, 3 bedroom home in Elizabeth, later finishing the basement as a play area for myself and my brother. The neighbors were similar - some were teachers, some worked in factories, some were retired and had lived there forever.

Taxes were on a steep rise, and my dad realized my brother and I could get a far better education, with costs similar to Elizabeth, elsewhere. I still don't think the schools were horrible, but I had no idea what school could be like until moving. Our playground was blacktop, we had some basketball hoops, monkey bars, etc, and it was fun. The new school had those same things - but with a rubber under the monkey bars, green grass, and a baseball field. In the new school, people came in to talk about the dangers of talking to strangers and coping with divorced parents - in Elizabeth, we had CAPP - the Child Abuse Prevention Program, who taught us how to escape if someone tried to grab us. All in all, it wasn't bad, just different.

A few months after moving out, I was visiting friends, and we decided to go by a place my friends and I used to hang out and get Slush Puppies. It was under new ownership, had bars on the windows, and looked... dirtier than it used to. We went by my old house, and instead of the well-cared for and maintained shrubs my dad used to trim and grass my dad mowed each weekend or so, everything was overgrown and disgusting. It wasn't just my old house either, the houses of friends who also moved away looked about the same, with new residents who didn't care if there was dirt on the siding, or if the driveway was cracked. My dad had left behind a few tools (mower, mulcher, etc) to the new owner, since my dad wanted a new set anyway, but they obviously went unused.

Its absolutely true that people need to have some pride before these places will truly be revitalized. Attempts at building parks, updating schools, etc, only goes so far - its the people who live there that decide the future of the city. I know I would love to see Elizabeth like I remembered it, and that was less than 20 years ago.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2007, 09:48 AM
 
1,446 posts, read 4,412,623 times
Reputation: 334
There are several major inaccuracies in the OP. Just because one's mother does not remember major problems in her city before the 60's does not mean they were not there. People often remeber with rose colored glasses what life was like then because it was fairly uneventful and quality for them. By no means does that mean that the reality was like that for all citizens.

Towns like Hoboken and Red Bank are very different from Newark and Patterson. Red Bank never had any of the quality of life issues you are referencing and is really a suburban town. Hoboken was never that bad either save a few areas and it has a unique location to help it out anyway. Gays did not start the revival of Hoboken. Anyone who was there would remember this. Yes there were artists (some may have been gay who knows) but that was not what happened and there is no way Asbury Park will follow the same path. It is in a totally different setting- smack dab in the middle of suburbia and that makes a huge difference. There were always gay clubs and gay people in Asbury- you can go back more than 30 years and see that.

If someone posting here really knew something about NJ they would be able to differentiate between these areas. But as usual we get so many posts here with tons of misinformation- nothing new. I just wonder why this is. Is it because the posters live elsewhere? I have never been sure. If you want to see life improve anywhere, you might want to refrain from using words like animal and thug in every other post. Most everyone is aware of the realities in these places including the people who live there now. You can't care about a place and have such a high disregard for its people. A recipe for more failure.

OP knows very little about the people who live in these areas currently except their negative attributes. Interesting. Another thread about how middle class whites need to swoop in and become role models for African-Americans. People who live in other states then join in on this thread and comment on how great the post was. This has happened before on this forum with the same message being conveyed. There are role models in EVERY community!!!! They are there right this minute and have an uphill battle as it is. More negative sterotyping does nothing but pour salt on old wounds. If you are so inclined -why don't you start by pulling parents aside in your own community and telling them what a s__tty job they're doing.

As far as the "new black leadership" goes - do you have any idea what you are talking about? Obviously not. That is a very complex issue and how many Black people do you actually know? I don't know of anyone who considers Booker the next anything. Why not leave that issue to people who live it everyday and have a clue?

Elizabeth sounds like it is holding its own but it gets little attention on this forum. Is it because it is not a "buzz" type of area? It is revitalizing without the help of artists and gays(LOL) so people continually overlook it. A town of working class, mostly nonwhites is just not interesting enough for people on city-data. Especially for people from other states who can't seem to stop posting on this forum about their local cred and their future dream house plans. Please.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2007, 10:04 AM
 
42 posts, read 45,047 times
Reputation: 12
I agree with the post above, its the people and what they do that makes the neighbor hood, town, community, municipal, or city what it is.

For example, my Grandmother lived in Atlantic City for 20 years. Her neighbors were most older folks with a few spanish families. When she moved the whole street was spanish and each one had toys in their front lawn, no shurbs or bushes, trash all over the place, windows broken or busted. I'm glad she left because I went back and drove by her house a few weeks ago, there is about three families living there and the paint on the front is starting to peel, the nice flowers are gone, trash all over the outside steps.

It's about personal responsibility.


Affordable housing, food stamps, section 8, welfare and the other social help programs that are just excuses for people who can't make it because they are lazy or stupid.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2007, 11:13 AM
 
Location: High Bridge, NJ
3,858 posts, read 8,050,291 times
Reputation: 3317
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyntmac View Post
There are several major inaccuracies in the OP. Just because one's mother does not remember major problems in her city before the 60's does not mean they were not there. People often remeber with rose colored glasses what life was like then because it was fairly uneventful and quality for them. By no means does that mean that the reality was like that for all citizens.

Towns like Hoboken and Red Bank are very different from Newark and Patterson. Red Bank never had any of the quality of life issues you are referencing and is really a suburban town. Hoboken was never that bad either save a few areas and it has a unique location to help it out anyway. Gays did not start the revival of Hoboken. Anyone who was there would remember this. Yes there were artists (some may have been gay who knows) but that was not what happened and there is no way Asbury Park will follow the same path. It is in a totally different setting- smack dab in the middle of suburbia and that makes a huge difference. There were always gay clubs and gay people in Asbury- you can go back more than 30 years and see that.

If someone posting here really knew something about NJ they would be able to differentiate between these areas. But as usual we get so many posts here with tons of misinformation- nothing new. I just wonder why this is. Is it because the posters live elsewhere? I have never been sure. If you want to see life improve anywhere, you might want to refrain from using words like animal and thug in every other post. Most everyone is aware of the realities in these places including the people who live there now. You can't care about a place and have such a high disregard for its people. A recipe for more failure.

OP knows very little about the people who live in these areas currently except their negative attributes. Interesting. Another thread about how middle class whites need to swoop in and become role models for African-Americans. People who live in other states then join in on this thread and comment on how great the post was. This has happened before on this forum with the same message being conveyed. There are role models in EVERY community!!!! They are there right this minute and have an uphill battle as it is. More negative sterotyping does nothing but pour salt on old wounds. If you are so inclined -why don't you start by pulling parents aside in your own community and telling them what a s__tty job they're doing.

As far as the "new black leadership" goes - do you have any idea what you are talking about? Obviously not. That is a very complex issue and how many Black people do you actually know? I don't know of anyone who considers Booker the next anything. Why not leave that issue to people who live it everyday and have a clue?

Elizabeth sounds like it is holding its own but it gets little attention on this forum. Is it because it is not a "buzz" type of area? It is revitalizing without the help of artists and gays(LOL) so people continually overlook it. A town of working class, mostly nonwhites is just not interesting enough for people on city-data. Especially for people from other states who can't seem to stop posting on this forum about their local cred and their future dream house plans. Please.
Amazing! I started out being villified as a bleeding heart feeling sorry for those awful welfare mothers ruining America. Now apparently I'm a racist trying to cleanse the cities of minorities
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2007, 12:40 PM
 
1,446 posts, read 4,412,623 times
Reputation: 334
Neither one. Anyone who uses the term "bleeding heart" in 2007 has got to be using it tongue in cheek. I have no idea if you are a racist. Why make things personal? It's a waste of time and forum space.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top