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PA is a big state, it's not all rural and backward. Philly has some of the best hospitals, cultural amenities and food in the US (best brew-pub scene I'm aware of definitely). The Main Line towns are sophisticated and upscale with a lower cost of living than the high end NJ towns. The Allentown/Bethlehem area has all of the same amenities as any other suburban NJ town with half the cost of living.
PA has plenty of really good school districts and is littered with solid 4 year colleges, never mind Penn State and UPenn (hello Ivy League). Pittsburgh has Wharton.
Have you ever actually been there?
You can say that again! Four years ago when we were looking at colleges, it seemed that every town in Pennsylvania has a college of its own! Some of them are quite good, too--my daughter is a city-loving girl, so the location of the school didn't work for her, but she was considering chemistry at the time and Lycoming College in Williamsport has a good chemistry program. Some of her friends are now attending PA colleges such as Delaware Valley, Susquehanna, etc.
PA is a big state, it's not all rural and backward. Philly has some of the best hospitals, cultural amenities and food in the US (best brew-pub scene I'm aware of definitely). The Main Line towns are sophisticated and upscale with a lower cost of living than the high end NJ towns. The Allentown/Bethlehem area has all of the same amenities as any other suburban NJ town with half the cost of living.
PA has plenty of really good school districts and is littered with solid 4 year colleges, never mind Penn State and UPenn (hello Ivy League). Pittsburgh has Wharton.
I thought I'd take a break from packing, to give you a few opinions about NJ. Having lived here since 1985, it has been home for over half of my life, so, I figured that I would at least give you my impression about my "feel " of the state".
Sure, I can post the goods about NJ - and I can post the bads. But, I can tell you for certain,,,,when we finally sign those papers to close on this home, and have NJ in the rearview mirror,,,I won't be sad. Never have I felt like I paid so much for something, and gotten so little for that payment in return. I thought that, the BEST way that I can put this into words, would be to use a thing like, is wanting to see a concert or show. And it all starts out with: A Ticketmaster ticket!
The show is at: The Garden State Arts Center - exit 116 on the Parkway in Holmdel NJ. You go online, and see that each seat is $56.00. They are general admission lawn seats, but it's the least expensive choice. So, you order two seats, and head to the checkout - expecting a bill of $112.00 - you are shocked when that bill now adds up to almost [$175], because of the stupid charges that have been tacked on. Including a convenience charge for buying online - but, you pay up because, finding a local Ticketmaster is impossible. It's concert night----you get to the show, [after sitting in traffic for 45 minuets - and paying [$5.90] for an entry toll, and three mileage tolls. Excitedly, you pull into the parking lot, and are waved over to an area, that is FAR away from the venue. Oh, that's right, you didn't pay the extra $30.00 for VIP parking! Well, now you have to go to one of the OUTER lots and WALK to the venue,,,,when you get to the outer lot,,,they stop your car,,,and ask for [$15.00] for parking! Still excited about the show, you walk happily with the other show goers, and arrive at the venue. It's July,,,its HOT out, you just walked all the way to the venue, in 98 degree heat, and now, both of you, need a beer, and something to eat. You get a peek at the menu. A bottle of beer that they pour into a cup is $7.00 and the hot dog w/fries is $11.00 - for two people, that is [$36.00]. Taking your gourmet meal to the lawn seats,,,,you realize that, it rained earlier in the day, and the blanket is not an option, so, you have to rent chairs, to the tune of $6. per chair [$12.00] - The show starts, its great,,,but, ITS HOT out, so, you have at a minimum, two more beers each - [$28.00] -- Of course you want, a memory of the show, and head to the Merchandise booth. The cool T-Shirt that you KNOW that, without a DOUBT that, you will wear this shirt ALL the time, so you fork over the money for a shirts - [$57.00] (*for a t-shirt that was made in China). Walking back to where they made you park, exhausted, you get back onto the parkway, and head home. Depending on where you enter and exit, the Parkway, it will cost you anywhere from .70 to 1.70 to do so. So, lets see what a night out at a concert cost for two :
Tickets - $175.00
Tolls - $ 7.60 (minimum)
Parking - $15.00
Lawn Chair Rental - $12.00
Food/Drinks - $64.00
T-Shirts - $57.00
-------------------
Total of $330.60
less $112.00 for two $56.00 tickets
-------------------
$218.60 that comes out of your pocket to see a show on the lawn.
This could be described in the same numbers, if you went to the movies, or even out to dinner. My point is this: You started out with an idea, of going to a concert. The ticket cost was $112.00, but you have to add on, all of the incidentals that go with seeing a show. Those tickets, are the representation of, property taxes in NJ - you expect to get a LOT, for your ticket price - but in reality, after all of the initial fees - you actually end up shelling out, a MASSIVE amount of money, that goes way PAST that original fee of the of $112.00 for two tickets - Yet, If somebody were to ask you, how much you paid for your tickets, only the original ticket price of $56.00 each, will stay in your mind, because that is, how we think. You don't get much, for what they are charging you, just to have that ticket, in your hand. You are getting charged left and right, above and beyond, the cost of that ticket. What exactly do you get for the ticket price (property taxes) in NJ? Are you getting the BEST schools in the NATION? No. Are you getting the MOST for what it costs to live in the state? Not by a long shot. So, if NJ has the highest taxes in the nation, why are we not getting more for those figures? Why can a state like Delaware not have a sales tax, and still function? Why are there states that don't tax people on retirement benefits, yet NJ taxes them? When my husband retires, sure we can stay here but it WILL be VERY difficult - why live with "difficult", if it's not needed? Why do I have to pay almost 7K to stay in a small home in NJ? Seriously why??? What is the point? People are leaving this state in droves. It's not getting better. It can only get worse, and I'd rather look for a new home.
Don't get me wrong - EVERY state in the nation has it's problems. There is no one place that is "Shangri-La". We are leaving for GA, and I know that it won't be perfect. No place can be perfect. Happily I know that, as long as I have my Hubby by my side,,,,ANY place can be home. We will and can, make ourselves happy no matter where we land. However, knowing that I will not be charged a massive premium, just to have the privilege of living in a state - well - THAT will be a huge relief, especially during retirement!
Do the math. Only YOU know where you can or cannot afford to live. Go onto a website like Zillow and find COMPARABLE homes in NJ & in PA. Same amount of land, etc, and compare the property taxes. Then, do a Google search on the COL for NJ & PA, and compare them side by side. Don't forget things like Car Insurance comparables as well. Remember that if you live in NJ, that a commute to work may also be in the cards, so you must put in the daily commute amount in tolls as well. For us, we had to be farther away from my husband's work place for an affordable home, and that is a 45 min. commute each way each day, and that adds up.
Good luck to you! Just do the math first!!!
I am afraid your logic is totally off. First of all, the fees charged by ticketmaster are charged throughout the US, so there is no difference in purchasing the ticket in NJ or any other state (except for the state taxes.) Second, no matter where the concert is, you still have to get to the venue...so going to a concert will of course involve transportation costs. Third, the purchase of tee shirts is also optional and would also have to be purchased if desired no matter where the concert was. Fourth, Purchasing food and drinks....this is not unique to NJ, no matter where in the world you go for a concert, you will have to pay for food and drinks. Fifth, paying for parking is not isolated to NJ....parking for almost any concert venue is always extra. As for the chair rental...that is optional. When I have gone to concerts at Holmdel, I bring a blanket with me :-)
PA is a big state, it's not all rural and backward. Philly has some of the best hospitals, cultural amenities and food in the US (best brew-pub scene I'm aware of definitely). The Main Line towns are sophisticated and upscale with a lower cost of living than the high end NJ towns. The Allentown/Bethlehem area has all of the same amenities as any other suburban NJ town with half the cost of living.
PA has plenty of really good school districts and is littered with solid 4 year colleges, never mind Penn State and UPenn (hello Ivy League). Pittsburgh has Wharton.
Have you ever actually been there?
I think it should have been very clear that I was not referring to Philly, or Pittsburgh.
The words, "rural", and "much of" should have been your clues.
And, "schools" was not a reference to colleges. It was a reference to...schools.
You know, those elementary and secondary institutions that people attend prior to going to college...such as The Wharton School, which is part of The University of Pennsylania, which is most definitely located in Philly.
Have you actually been there?
In any event, my travels through PA while visiting relatives have demonstrated that many, many folks live a great distance from a hospital, that the supermarkets frequently lack the products that I am looking for, and that driving for extended distances is frequently necessary when one needs to shop. Naturally, none of this is true of the cities, but...I think it was fairly obvious that I wasn't referring to cities.
I am afraid your logic is totally off. First of all, the fees charged by ticketmaster are charged throughout the US, so there is no difference in purchasing the ticket in NJ or any other state (except for the state taxes.) Second, no matter where the concert is, you still have to get to the venue...so going to a concert will of course involve transportation costs. Third, the purchase of tee shirts is also optional and would also have to be purchased if desired no matter where the concert was. Fourth, Purchasing food and drinks....this is not unique to NJ, no matter where in the world you go for a concert, you will have to pay for food and drinks. Fifth, paying for parking is not isolated to NJ....parking for almost any concert venue is always extra. As for the chair rental...that is optional. When I have gone to concerts at Holmdel, I bring a blanket with me :-)
KoalaNJ
It was a metaphor! Perhaps you are so in love with the state that, you are not seeing the "logic". Some people in NJ are so, convinced that, they are getting a LOT for how much it costs to live here. But what are you really getting? What is so special about NJ, that you absolutely cannot get, in ANY other state? Hence the point that I said about, only looking at the original cost of the ticket. I love NJ. But alas, as I said in the post, I cannot afford to stay here. Do you own a house here???? If you do, are you okay with being charged the highest tax rate in the country? I am not. In fact, I'm quite angry about having to leave my home, because of the taxes.
Three years ago my taxes went up 48%. Am I supposed to be happy about that? Honestly, almost 7K per year, on a 3 bedroom ranch home, built in 1952?? REALLY???? My kids are now ready to start families of their own, and cannot afford to stay here. The dream of owning a home is difficult enough, having to figure out HOW you are going to pay an enormous tax bill, on that home, really should not come into play. Seven grand is a HUGE chunk of money for an average person/family. Again, my "Logic" was, that you don't get much, for the cost of the ticket. NJ isn't giving us, super living conditions, for those high tax payments. If other states can live on normal tax rates, why can't NJ? The streets in NJ, are not lined with gold,,,it isn't THAT great of a place. Yes, it's nice, but certainly not worth the admission price. No family should have to worry about how they are going to make tax payments that high, no matter where they live.
I also stated that it cost almost $6. in TOLLS,,,not gas. When my kids come to visit, they have to be prepared to pay a lot of tolls. It's not just gas, they have to plan on keeping at least $15.00 extra for the ability to travel on a road, just to get to and from, my house. The roads should be free, (the parkway was paid off years ago, but they CHOSE to keep the tolls).Why? Because it is the biggest money maker in the state. All that money is not going to the road upkeep. The Turnpike Authority has one of the highest payrolls, in the state. The beaches should be free as well, but they are not. We have to buy a daily badge, or pay to get on to the Island, each and every time, at $7.00 per car. I don't know about you, but I'm not happy about having to reach into my pocket for everyday things, like driving on a road, or going to the beach. I have done it since 1985 and am done. Again, for Seven Grand a year, what am I getting?
That is why I compared it to going to a show. The incidentals start to add up. I know that you love NJ, I am not arguing that at all, I am not bashing living here, I am bashing how much it COSTS to live here. I for one, have had enough. I am one of the MANY thousands of people that have, literally, been taxed out of my home. When you retire, and must live on a fixed income, perhaps then you will see, just how much it is REALLY costing you to live, in the Garden State. I can think of much better ways to spend at least 5 grand - that is the minimum that I will save by leaving the state, and buying elsewhere. Once Again,,,LOVED living here -- HATED the TAXES for that privilege, and absolutely KNOW that affording those bills when my husband retires, will be next to impossible. THAT alone, is a very sad statement. People should not be forced out of their homes, that took a lifetime to achieve.
BTW- I'm glad that you bring a blanket to shows. If you read it again - you will see that I stated that "it rained the night before, and the blanket that you brought is now not any good" - hence the need for the chair rental.
PA is a big state, it's not all rural and backward. Philly has some of the best hospitals, cultural amenities and food in the US (best brew-pub scene I'm aware of definitely). The Main Line towns are sophisticated and upscale with a lower cost of living than the high end NJ towns. The Allentown/Bethlehem area has all of the same amenities as any other suburban NJ town with half the cost of living.
PA has plenty of really good school districts and is littered with solid 4 year colleges, never mind Penn State and UPenn (hello Ivy League). Pittsburgh has Wharton.
Have you ever actually been there?
So PA has Eastern Civilization (Philly, excluding Eagles fans), Western Civilization (Pittsburgh) and 300 miles of West Virginia in between. That's what we've been trying to point out.
So PA has Eastern Civilization (Philly, excluding Eagles fans), Western Civilization (Pittsburgh) and 300 miles of West Virginia in between. That's what we've been trying to point out.
Traditionally it's Kentucky, not West Virginia :-)
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