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Old 11-05-2012, 04:02 AM
 
26,582 posts, read 49,362,012 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zugor View Post
I don't have an answer but I do have a couple of questions that someone here might have the knowledge to be able to provide an answer.

Is the primary problem damage to infrastructure such as transformers, power poles and lines and the companies just do not have enough inventory of supplies to replace hardware or is the primary problem lack of qualified manpower to make the repairs? Or a 50/50 combination of both?
Both.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:38 AM
PDD
 
Location: The Sand Hills of NC
8,776 posts, read 12,637,985 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GiantRutgersfan View Post
Out of power for 6 days last October, out 7 and counting this year.

Not really acceptable. I realize its an "act of god" but I like to always think that we can do better then the status quo. Especially for the elderly.

Is there any realistic alternative to our current electric system? Underground lines? metal lines? something else?
Simple solution,
Cut down all trees that could possible take down power lines.

So who's gonna be first to cut down those beautiful trees lining your yard?
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Northern NJ
6,260 posts, read 6,273,420 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerm277 View Post
Unrealistic and ridiculous. If you cut a 60ft wide swath around every power line, most towns wouldn't have a tree remaining. That's going to be GREAT for flooding, water runoff, and in areas with hills, soil erosion.
Nonsense. The amount of trees taken down compared with the total inventory of trees by removing them from the areas around transmission lines would be negligible. And you don't have to go 60 feet. You could bet by with 30 feet, especially in the interior neighborhoods. However, 60 feet is good for areas with 3 phase 6-20kV feeders. Widespread outages occur when these main feeders get hit.

Erosion and water flow are a non-issue. They can be handled by planting lower growing species, shrubs, etc. They hold the soil better than large singleton trees, can handle the esthetics, and do not threaten the health and safety of our people.

The goal is not to eliminate any possible outage. It is to reduce 75% of the outages, and make them much smaller. Roads like Route 10, 46, 202, 53, 23, 206, etc. should have NO trees near the feeder power lines at all.

Within the residential neighborhoods, they can grow a bit closer. But at no time should tree branches hang over ANY power line. Substations are usually pretty well cleared, however not always. There should be NO trees AT ALL near any substation or the infrastructure around them.

People come first. Safety comes first. Power reliability comes first. I am frankly shocked that the utility companies have not taken the lead on educating the public about the importance of tree removal around power lines. This would be utterly cheap, and we wouldn't have to live in mortal fear of ice storms, snow storms, wind storms, thunderstorms, etc.

Last edited by Marc Paolella; 11-05-2012 at 07:26 AM..
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Northern NJ
6,260 posts, read 6,273,420 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zugor View Post
I don't have an answer but I do have a couple of questions that someone here might have the knowledge to be able to provide an answer.

Is the primary problem damage to infrastructure such as transformers, power poles and lines and the companies just do not have enough inventory of supplies to replace hardware or is the primary problem lack of qualified manpower to make the repairs? Or a 50/50 combination of both?
It is not remotely cost effective to maintain readiness 24/7 for a 48-hour power restoration in the event of a Sandy-class storm. It IS cost effective to remove the trees that caused 90% of the problem in the first place.

I am not going to pay ridiculous rates for electricity to be overprepared for disaster, when the scope of the disaster in most cases can be reduced to a much smaller impact with simple common sense cutting down of trees near vital infrastructure.
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:55 AM
 
26,582 posts, read 49,362,012 times
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As I stated earlier, cutting trees down is foolish. Any trees still standing after Sandy are not likely to fall during a subsequent storm as long as they remain healthy. Cutting BRANCHES that hang of or go around lines is very prudent. Between that and some self-sufficiency/personal responsibility, the problem is generally solved.
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Old 11-05-2012, 08:04 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,540 posts, read 16,243,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
Underground would do it for many towns. But I have the suspicion that political priorities had something to do with it too. Why did some barrier islands get power back before western Essex and Morris counties? Answer: media's eyes were on the shore towns, and Atlantic City is of course a showpiece.

BTW my house is still apparently without power though some of WO got it back tonight.
ours came on near gregory/northfield around 11:00pm last night.

there's really not much more that can be done. the utilities could have had more crews on hand.

the way the grid is currently set up, with centralized generation, then distribution/transimission and substations...there's not a whole lot to improve without going to a smart grid with decentralized generation (solar and wind would help with that). and there is much resistance to that.

the barrier islands could have gotten power back for a number of reasons that aren't political/media related. the problems could have been less complex and less widespread. essex county has downed lines all over the county, and it's difficult for PSEG to even know which ones are down.
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Old 11-05-2012, 08:05 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
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also - engineers at my dad's company in PA said their lines are only designed to handle about 40mph winds.
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Old 11-05-2012, 08:10 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,540 posts, read 16,243,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rscalzo View Post
At each home there needs to be a "drop". when the drop is across the roadway, what would you think the cost would be?? Quite a lot. When do you think Verizon stopped installing FIOS?
verizon stopped new expansion of FIOS because of large amounts of unused bandwidth. the demand for such high levels of bandwidth is simply not there yet. but as people start watching more on demand and netflix online, etc...they'll build out more.
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Old 11-05-2012, 08:11 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,540 posts, read 16,243,661 times
Reputation: 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by GiantRutgersfan View Post
Out of power for 6 days last October, out 7 and counting this year.

Not really acceptable. I realize its an "act of god" but I like to always think that we can do better then the status quo. Especially for the elderly.

Is there any realistic alternative to our current electric system? Underground lines? metal lines? something else?
a downed pole takes 5 hours of work to fix. do the math....such a widespread damage to the infrastructure simply takes a long time to fix.
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Old 11-05-2012, 08:53 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,540 posts, read 16,243,661 times
Reputation: 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by soug View Post
Haha I have faith, you don't, but in the end that's just one aspect of what I'm proposing. Regardless of the source (photovoltaics, wind, whatever), the most important thing is that we need to move towards a more distributed system and more local generation. That's the best way to ensure that the least number of people are affected when a power-disrupting event occurs.
my parent's area in northeast PA didn't lose power because the 120 windmills nearby....all other generation and substation in the area were damaged. they like the windmills even more now.
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