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Old 11-23-2012, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Holmdel, NJ
20,589 posts, read 25,372,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
I don;t think anyone who's never had the job is in a position to say that. Not everyone has the temperment and patience to be a caregiver, and it is a licensed job that requires training and state testing.
i understand that not everyone is fit for the job, but the education, training and skill requirements are about as low as any position out there.

funny how you mention that it requires training; are people supposed to be fooled into believing its some kind of year long course? I wonder what you are trying to have others believe by saying that. i believe a full time training program can be completed in 2-3 weeks.
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Old 11-23-2012, 07:43 AM
 
13,323 posts, read 11,994,298 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
i understand that not everyone is fit for the job, but the education, training and skill requirements are about as low as any position out there.

funny how you mention that it requires training; are people supposed to be fooled into believing its some kind of year long course? I wonder what you are trying to have others believe by saying that. i believe a full time training program can be completed in 2-3 weeks.
The length of the training hardly implies that anyone can do the job. I've been working in nursing homes for many years, and I can tell you that it's not true.
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Holmdel, NJ
20,589 posts, read 25,372,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
The length of the training hardly implies that anyone can do the job. I've been working in nursing homes for many years, and I can tell you that it's not true.
do you hire the CNA's? working in a nursing home for years clearly doesnt qualify you to know anything about hiring them. the job requirements basically filter out illiterate people. then its a matter of trying to filter out people who would have the patience to deal with the elderly and perform the dirty work in healthcare. ultimately, it becomes a matter of trying to find a low wage pool of people to tap into. these is pretty easy in a city; less so in more suburban and rural areas. its always going to be one of the lowest paying jobs out there.
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Old 11-23-2012, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
4,496 posts, read 1,554,075 times
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RUSchool if you are implying that I"m a liberal you are way off base, I'm an independent and pulled the lever for Romney. I'm not getting hung up on theories that don't jive with the real world. I'm for limited government and limted re-distribution but I"m not one of these people who thinks there is no role at all for government. If a Democrat like Booker is doing a good job I'll say so. Our problems start with the 20,000,000 illegals we have roaming around. CLOSE THE BORDERS NOW!
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Old 11-23-2012, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Northern NJ
6,260 posts, read 6,273,420 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
The length of the training hardly implies that anyone can do the job. I've been working in nursing homes for many years, and I can tell you that it's not true.
The bottom line is that many "hard" jobs do not require rare skills. A desired skill has economic value in direct proportion to its rarity in the population. Anyone can clean bedpans and be kind and patient. It's not rare. It does not have a lot of economic value. Flying a 747 requires lots of rare skills, and only a certain proportion of people can qualify. Thus airline pilots get paid well.

This is correct and desirable. It is not injustice when someone gets paid beans to do a hard job or a menial job. It is not injustice when someone gets paid millions to sing a song.

If lots of people can do something, it will never command a high wage, nor should it. In fact, some jobs are so rudimentary that doing them will not enable someone to live comfortably at all. The solution, if one has a problem with that standard of living, is to make themselves better and rarer. Then one can command the type of wage one wants, to live in the style to which one aspires to becoming accustomed.
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Old 11-23-2012, 11:37 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the swamps of Jersey
513 posts, read 872,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
do you hire the CNA's? working in a nursing home for years clearly doesnt qualify you to know anything about hiring them. the job requirements basically filter out illiterate people. then its a matter of trying to filter out people who would have the patience to deal with the elderly and perform the dirty work in healthcare. ultimately, it becomes a matter of trying to find a low wage pool of people to tap into. these is pretty easy in a city; less so in more suburban and rural areas. its always going to be one of the lowest paying jobs out there.
CaptainNJ, Thank goodness that most health care workers are not judgemental like you. Remember that when you are incapacitated someday and a certified nurses aid gently wipes your or a family mmber's "brow", holds your hand when you are anxious or upset, or helps to feed or wash or dress you. If you see that as "dirty work", then I imagine that you have been very blessed in your lifetime. They can make or break your day and should be treated with much respect. They are the backbone of many facilities and of homecare, as well.
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Old 11-23-2012, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Holmdel, NJ
20,589 posts, read 25,372,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryanne10 View Post
CaptainNJ, Thank goodness that most health care workers are not judgemental like you. Remember that when you are incapacitated someday and a certified nurses aid gently wipes your or a family mmber's "brow", holds your hand when you are anxious or upset, or helps to feed or wash or dress you. If you see that as "dirty work", then I imagine that you have been very blessed in your lifetime. They can make or break your day and should be treated with much respect. They are the backbone of many facilities and of homecare, as well.
i dont disagree with pretty much anything you said however im pretty sure im not the only one that thinks changing an elderly persons diaper (especially someone not related to them) is dirty work. i think the CNA's doing it would agree with me.
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:49 AM
 
3,986 posts, read 5,194,731 times
Reputation: 2870
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
The bottom line is that many "hard" jobs do not require rare skills. A desired skill has economic value in direct proportion to its rarity in the population. Anyone can clean bedpans and be kind and patient. It's not rare. It does not have a lot of economic value. Flying a 747 requires lots of rare skills, and only a certain proportion of people can qualify. Thus airline pilots get paid well.
Some are, with many years of experience at large carriers. But remember the plane that crashed in Buffalo? The two pilots were low-paid hourly serfs sleeping in airport lounges between flights. In Marc's "you're paid what your value is to society" these two should've been well paid. They weren't. I guess you have to tweak your thoughts on what greedy corporations, even those with our lives in their hands, will do to save a buck, Marc.

Under questioning from the board, Mary Colgan Finnigan, Colgan's vice president for administration, confirmed that Rebecca Shaw, co-pilot of the fatal flight, drew an annual salary of about $16,200. The board also said that Shaw once held a second job in a coffee shop while working as a pilot for the airline in Norfolk.


Panel on Fatal Crash Looks at Pilots' Pay, Commutes
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Old 11-24-2012, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Holmdel, NJ
20,589 posts, read 25,372,888 times
Reputation: 12600
corporations arent greedy, consumers are. corporations are just responding to their demands.
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Old 11-24-2012, 01:46 PM
 
3,986 posts, read 5,194,731 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
corporations arent greedy, consumers are. corporations are just responding to their demands.
No, many corporations are greedy.

Just compare Costco vs. Sam's Club. This study is several years old but the basics about it still ring true.


Consider Costco and Wal-Mart’s Sam’s Club, which compete fiercely on low-price merchandise. Among warehouse retailers, Costco—with 338 stores and 67,600 full-time employees in the United States—is number one, accounting for about 50% of the market. Sam’s Club—with 551 stores and 110,200 employees in the United States—is number two, with about 40% of the market.

Though the businesses are direct competitors and quite similar overall, a remarkable disparity shows up in their wage and benefits structures. The average wage at Costco is $17 an hour. Wal-Mart does not break out the pay of its Sam’s Club workers, but a full-time worker at Wal-Mart makes $10.11 an hour on average, and a variety of sources suggest that Sam’s Club’s pay scale is similar to Wal-Mart’s. A 2005 New York Times article by Steven Greenhouse reported that at $17 an hour, Costco’s average pay is 72% higher than Sam’s Club’s ($9.86 an hour). Interviews that a colleague and I conducted with a dozen Sam’s Club employees in San Francisco and Denver put the average hourly wage at about $10. And a 2004 BusinessWeek article by Stanley Holmes and Wendy Zellner estimated Sam’s Club’s average hourly wage at $11.52.

On the benefits side, 82% of Costco employees have health-insurance coverage, compared with less than half at Wal-Mart. And Costco workers pay just 8% of their health premiums, whereas Wal-Mart workers pay 33% of theirs. Ninety-one percent of Costco’s employees are covered by retirement plans, with the company contributing an annual average of $1,330 per employee, while 64 percent of employees at Sam’s Club are covered, with the company contributing an annual average of $747 per employee.

Costco’s practices are clearly more expensive, but they have an offsetting cost-containment effect: Turnover is unusually low, at 17% overall and just 6% after one year’s employment. In contrast, turnover at Wal-Mart is 44% a year’close to the industry average. In skilled and semi-skilled jobs, the fully loaded cost of replacing a worker who leaves (excluding lost productivity) is typically 1.5 to 2.5 times the worker’s annual salary. To be conservative, let’s assume that the total cost of replacing an hourly employee at Costco or Sam’s Club is only 60% of his or her annual salary. If a Costco employee quits, the cost of replacing him or her is therefore $21,216. If a Sam’s Club employee leaves, the cost is $12,617. At first glance, it may seem that the low-wage approach at Sam’s Club would result in lower turnover costs. But if its turnover rate is the same as Wal-Mart’s, Sam’s Club loses more than twice as many people as Costco does: 44% versus 17%. By this calculation, the total annual cost to Costco of employee churn is $244 million, whereas the total annual cost to Sam’s Club is $612 million. That’s $5,274 per Sam’s Club employee, versus $3,628 per Costco employee.


In return for its generous wages and benefits, Costco gets one of the most loyal and productive workforces in all of retailing’and, probably not coincidentally, the lowest shrinkage (employee theft) figures in the industry. While Sam’s Club and Costco generated $37 billion and $43 billion, respectively, in U.S. sales last year, Costco did it with 38% fewer employees—admittedly, in part by selling to higher-income shoppers and offering more high-end goods. As a result, Costco generated $21,805 in U.S. operating profit per hourly employee, compared with $11,615 at Sam’s Club. Costco’s stable, productive workforce more than offsets its higher costs.


The High Cost of Low Wages - Harvard Business Review
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