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There is no civic duty. Civic duty is a myth. We are NOT our brother's keeper. That is also worse than a myth. We are not born into slavery. If someone needs help, they should ask for it, not demand it at the point of a gun. We call that crime in other contexts. Old ladies were young once, as were old men. You need to plan for your old age when you are young. Responsible rational people do it every day, save their money, and live comfortably in their old age. Our problem is we have too many people who have been dumbed down by our education system and our government to think that they are "entitled" to free food stamp VISA cards and "entitled" to free Obama voodoo-care and "entitled" to a living wage(!) using "other people's money". Hence the term "entitlement programs". Nobody is "entitled" to the life of his fellow man simply because he needs it. That is a collectivist concept that is totally wrong, totally irrational, and in fact anti-rational, and anti-Man. We need a new education system that stresses the primacy of the individual, and the responsibility of the individual to act in his own self-interest. COMMUNITY BE DAMNED. We need more smart, independent, intelligent, citizens who act individually and do not lazily demand that others do it all for them. Our schools are NOT producing this type of citizen at the present time. They are producing whiny losers with eternal shoulder chips who envy everyone that has more than they do and who want to organize into irrational zombie mobs to "Occupy Wall Street" and display their abject dumbness on their sleeves as a badge of courage. Enough already.
to mention that old ladies neglects the fact that they might not have be able to get jobs seeing as how its a fairly new factor in our lives ... i said help... do i believe that people should be allowed to stay on welfare for more than 5 years no ? but to say that if you were a homemaker all your life and your husband dies and you cant get his pension means you just starve and die is inhumane.. but then again your a real estate agent correct ? how dare you talk about govt spending when im sure you have quite a few deductions come tax time ? its funny how people view things differently when it involves them ? would you still be in biz if all your business expenses were on your own dime ?
It doesn't matter whether you or anyone else thinks she's smart or hard working. The bottom line is she earned the money, she should do with it as she sees fit. None of us should get any say whatsoever in what other people do with the money they earn. They have no obligation to those who didn't earn it.
so then no one should pay taxes and we should eliminate police officers everywhere .. that way its really the strong who survive ... right or wrong ? i bet a lot of people would stop buying luxury items if they knew that police officers didnt exist and getting robbed just mean tough cookies
Yes, I know. Blasphemy and ruination to say such a thing. But overall, if you look at things big picture, it's true. Rich people are, under a free system such as Capitalism, on the average, smarter and harder working than the average citizen. That's how they got rich. They are better economic citizens and have more economic value.
I won't say they are "better" as overall humans, because that encompasses a wider variety of measurements. Measurements that do indeed include earned wealth, but are not limited to earned wealth. So don't worry, average folk and "little" guys, you can still be valid and wonderful examples of humanity. Your license to live is not revoked.
And now please! To the hysterical minions of envy: no nonsense posts about examples of stupid rich people or smart homeless bums or depraved recipients of the silver spoon or destitute paragons of love and virtue.
Any such anecdotes will betray an embarrassing lack of intelligence. You don't want that. We all know there are outliers.
like you are not "average folk" or a "little guy". my God, you sell homes for a living. LMAO.
There are no absolutes in this debate and the answers probably lie in the middle somewhere. Marc's commentary on no civic duty is spot on. But I disagree with his other commentary that greed is good. Greed is the one thing that is killing us Marc, whether it's greedy corporations, unions, or wefare collecting slugs. Everyone wants their piece of the pie, and the hell with everyone else.
wouldnt civic duty reverse the trend a little ... imagine if everyone did a little to help someone else ... we live in a country where people kill for the chance to buy a gift on a religious holiday ... isnt that a little bit too far ... were all obsessed with what we can get and we ignore what we can do ... everyone not only wants their piece of the pie but they want all the pie which causes everyone to fight over the same pie and then it falls on the floor ... what if the first person in line cut out slices for everyone else... trust me i agree that the welfare system is flawed ... theres no excuse to being on welfare for more than 10 years ... but at the same time to leave those people with no help would in turn f*** you over ... imagine if all of irvington had to " fend for themselves" maplewood would be destroyed ... the police force that we all pay taxes for helps to keep crime down (it could be much worse ) nothing happens in a vaccuum and this whole keeping up with the jones' got us here... ( people buying more house than they can afford) at the end of life all we know is that we die and we dont get to keep our stuff ...
Yes, I know. Blasphemy and ruination to say such a thing. But overall, if you look at things big picture, it's true. Rich people are, under a free system such as Capitalism, on the average, smarter and harder working than the average citizen. That's how they got rich. They are better economic citizens and have more economic value.
I won't say they are "better" as overall humans, because that encompasses a wider variety of measurements. Measurements that do indeed include earned wealth, but are not limited to earned wealth. So don't worry, average folk and "little" guys, you can still be valid and wonderful examples of humanity. Your license to live is not revoked.
And now please! To the hysterical minions of envy: no nonsense posts about examples of stupid rich people or smart homeless bums or depraved recipients of the silver spoon or destitute paragons of love and virtue.
Any such anecdotes will betray an embarrassing lack of intelligence. You don't want that. We all know there are outliers.
whos smarter though ? the person who works hard all their life and then dies or a person who get the govt to cover all expenses and doesnt have to work and then dies ... you can use some perspective ( we all can ) but rich people dispise the poor people who dont work and take away from what the rich could have made and the poor people hate the rich kids who never had to work and dont help the poor people live a decent life... you guys have the same enemy ... welfare needs to be reformed and one way to figure out how to reform it is to have someone live like they do for a period of time ... granted the rich shouldnt be paying for someone to be a slouch but theres more to the people who are poor than just slouches ( though there are slouches) so to claim they are all slouches is like saying all rich people dont work ...
NWK you are rambling. I think we can agree that greed is not good. This country took a giant step towards socialism on November 6th. Problem is, socialism doesn't work. The only way these problems are going to get fixed is if the 2 parties come together and compromise, that's right dems -- it's time to look at Social Security and raise the retirement age. And republicans -- you have to look at eliminating some tax loopholes. If we don't fix the problems, we become Greece, and the markets fix our problems for us witih high inflation and/or interest rates. It's really not rocket science, and there is no free lunch.
to mention that old ladies neglects the fact that they might not have be able to get jobs seeing as how its a fairly new factor in our lives ... i said help... do i believe that people should be allowed to stay on welfare for more than 5 years no ? but to say that if you were a homemaker all your life and your husband dies and you cant get his pension means you just starve and die is inhumane.. but then again your a real estate agent correct ? how dare you talk about govt spending when im sure you have quite a few deductions come tax time ? its funny how people view things differently when it involves them ? would you still be in biz if all your business expenses were on your own dime ?
No matter how old or how dumb or how destitute or how disadvantaged or how lazy or how whatever - you never have a right to demand the life and property of another. You have a right to ask for help. Never to demand it.
Government socialism is predicated on the have nots making demands on the haves. And that is wrong in a free society.
Not having stuff is never a license to steal from those who have stuff. You want help? Ask for it. That is moral. But using the police power of the state to steal what you cannot earn? Sorry dawg, I'm not down with that.
whos smarter though ? the person who works hard all their life and then dies or a person who get the govt to cover all expenses and doesnt have to work and then dies ... you can use some perspective ( we all can ) but rich people dispise the poor people who dont work and take away from what the rich could have made and the poor people hate the rich kids who never had to work and dont help the poor people live a decent life... you guys have the same enemy ... welfare needs to be reformed and one way to figure out how to reform it is to have someone live like they do for a period of time ... granted the rich shouldnt be paying for someone to be a slouch but theres more to the people who are poor than just slouches ( though there are slouches) so to claim they are all slouches is like saying all rich people dont work ...
I can answer that question. The person who works hard all their life is the smarter one. And the better one. And the more moral one. And the one everyone in society should try to emulate.
And rich people don't despise poor people. In fact they don't even think about poor people. That is, until the poor people start making demands and stealing the fruits of their labor.
And poor people don't hate rich people. They hate themselves for being too lazy to earn their way. The hating on the rich people is just an example of the psychological mechanism known as projection.
wouldnt civic duty reverse the trend a little ... imagine if everyone did a little to help someone else ... we live in a country where people kill for the chance to buy a gift on a religious holiday ... isnt that a little bit too far ... were all obsessed with what we can get and we ignore what we can do ... everyone not only wants their piece of the pie but they want all the pie which causes everyone to fight over the same pie and then it falls on the floor ... what if the first person in line cut out slices for everyone else... trust me i agree that the welfare system is flawed ... theres no excuse to being on welfare for more than 10 years ... but at the same time to leave those people with no help would in turn f*** you over ... imagine if all of irvington had to " fend for themselves" maplewood would be destroyed ... the police force that we all pay taxes for helps to keep crime down (it could be much worse ) nothing happens in a vaccuum and this whole keeping up with the jones' got us here... ( people buying more house than they can afford) at the end of life all we know is that we die and we dont get to keep our stuff ...
There is no pie. Unless you baked it. In which case, you have the right to determine who gets to have a piece. As for deciding to help someone? That should be a personal decision based on one's own motivation. It should not be endorsed or enforced by public policy. Free people help others more than enslaved people anyway. Just like rich people help others more than poor people. Just by being alive, a rich person will keep all kinds of poor people employed and better off. The purchase of one large yacht keeps scores and scores of people employed for many man-years. Buying a BMW is a public service, as well as keeping up with the Joneses.
As for religious holidays, they should be religiously observed, by all members of the given religion. The remainder of the citizens should be free to shop and buy stuff and sell stuff and do whatever the heck they want. Because guess what? We live in a free country! Isn't that great?
Oh and the decision to keep up with the Jones is a personal one. People should be free to buy stuff so that they match up with their friends and neighbors. There is nothing wrong with that. The neighbor buys something cool and shows you how it works, and you say: "I'm going to get me one of those because it looks fun!" Totally good. Totally cool.
I think the term "keeping up with the Joneses" was coined by some lazy lout who couldn't keep up with anyone. So rather than even try to keep up, he chose to denounce. Hence the pejorative use of that turn of phrase. In fact, consumerism is a good thing. Material goods are fun to buy and fun to own and fun to upgrade.
Last edited by Marc Paolella; 11-28-2012 at 02:47 PM..
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