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View Poll Results: Is NJ one of the worst run states?
Yes 22 50.00%
No 22 50.00%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-29-2012, 03:54 PM
 
2,665 posts, read 4,384,402 times
Reputation: 838

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
that means nothing. the average government worker has a higher salary and much higher benefits cost than the average equivalent private sector worker. i understand that brady wants to use the typical government union/employee response to this notion, but thats just protecting a system that abuses taxpayers and creates a privelaged group of government workers. i believe in an article i read recently, they were saying that as the person is more educated, they have a better shot at earning more in the private sector vs public. brady is pretending all government workers are highly education sophisticated geniuses, thats far from the truth. they are also going to be your lowest performers. so when you take more specialized careers, the more skilled people go to the private sector while the least skilled go public sector. so they have lower salaries compared to private equals, but they really are the lower skilled among their peers.

for example, if you look at bradys comprehensive list he mentions doctors and pharmacists. how many doctors and pharmacists does the government employee compared to your average shmo paper pusher in a government desk job? ultimately, those more skilled jobs dont matter much when it comes to the overall average.
thats false, and ur pretending all govt workers are low educated and lazy
not all skilled workers go to private sector, some people (like me) wan do unique things that only govt jobs offer, and many govt jobs require advanced degrees and even if u have them, some of em are very hard to get cuz a lot of brilliant people apply despite lower pay (thats where benefits count), u got more chance of getting into harvard
corporations also have tons of low level, low skill paper pushers, not eryone is a doctor, lawyer or a ceo
i can understand and support the idea of reducing bureaucracy, money wasting and cutting unnecessary govt jobs, but to cut their pensions is nonsense, and itd never happen anyway, town consolidation and more accountability is the only way to go

Last edited by OleSchoolFool; 11-29-2012 at 04:09 PM..
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Collingswood
283 posts, read 462,342 times
Reputation: 138
When something like 1 out of every 17 people in the state of NJ works for the government (including babies, children, the elderly, etc.), the problem is simple: too much government. If I were a state worker, I'd think long and hard about whether to stay - not sure who's going to be left to pick up the tab when you go to retire. The system is obviously paying out of current receivables and is way underfunded. I think the state income tax is very much to blame - it shifted accountability from local municipalities to Trenton. Add in a few state Supreme Court manufactured crises like Abbott and COAH, and you have a recipe for bloated state payrolls that decide how to best slosh around state funds to win elections while residents' towns who send them the money to begin with are going bankrupt. The whole house of cards will collapse.
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Epping,NH
2,097 posts, read 5,147,514 times
Reputation: 1046
Don't let the facts get in your way. Other state ratios are much worse than NJ.

What's Your State's Deadweight Ratio? - Forbes
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Holmdel, NJ
20,944 posts, read 26,064,448 times
Reputation: 12979
Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
proof please.
proof of what? we have all seen the numbers if we have done some research, so we know they are paid more and benefits are much more. now we have also heard the claims that its because they are more qualified, more highly educated, etc. thats not proof, thats just talk. but i guess if you are inclined to believe that way then you will accept a verbal response without proof over the numbers that are easily found.

brady's response is funny when you think about it. as if the millions of government employees are doctors and pharmacists that could be making more in the private sector. sure, there are specialized jobs; but mostly its an army of paper pushers and fake make work jobs that are very well paid compared to their paper pushing private sector counterparts.
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Randolph, NJ
4,076 posts, read 6,471,898 times
Reputation: 3205
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
proof of what? we have all seen the numbers if we have done some research, so we know they are paid more and benefits are much more. now we have also heard the claims that its because they are more qualified, more highly educated, etc. thats not proof, thats just talk. but i guess if you are inclined to believe that way then you will accept a verbal response without proof over the numbers that are easily found.

brady's response is funny when you think about it. as if the millions of government employees are doctors and pharmacists that could be making more in the private sector. sure, there are specialized jobs; but mostly its an army of paper pushers and fake make work jobs that are very well paid compared to their paper pushing private sector counterparts.
so easily found... so proof will be no problem for you ... right?
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:26 PM
Status: "the sun is not yellow, it's chicken" (set 9 days ago)
 
Location: Bel Air, California
18,582 posts, read 18,038,826 times
Reputation: 28008
I voted yes but admittedly the extent of my insight on how New Jersey runs is that I always thought Joe Piscopo was a dork
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:32 PM
 
Location: Holmdel, NJ
20,944 posts, read 26,064,448 times
Reputation: 12979
Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfFull View Post
so easily found... so proof will be no problem for you ... right?
you mean comparisons of the salary and benefits of government vs private sector? is this a joke? you do a simple google search and get plenty of results. here is one:

Chart of the Day: Federal Government Pay vs. Private Sector Pay | Mother Jones

a couple of important things to note (and ill be quick since its my bedtime, ill come back manana). 1. that chart doesnt seem to demonstrate that the vast majority of workers dont fall in the phd category in public or private sector. so while that may be where public is least compensated, i bet it makes up the smallest % of total workers. 2. i bet that a lot of the Phd's in the private sector work in jobs/companies where they actually add value. in the public sector, people get masters degrees and phd's in fields that are worthless and dont bring in revenue and/or they simply get the degrees because it bumps up their pay while basically doing the same job. so i doubt that in spite of them having the same level of education, that the public worker phd's are really equal to the private sector ones. of course, there are plenty of exceptions but im saying thats what you will find in most cases.
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Randolph, NJ
4,076 posts, read 6,471,898 times
Reputation: 3205
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
you mean comparisons of the salary and benefits of government vs private sector? is this a joke? you do a simple google search and get plenty of results. here is one:

Chart of the Day: Federal Government Pay vs. Private Sector Pay | Mother Jones

a couple of important things to note (and ill be quick since its my bedtime, ill come back manana). 1. that chart doesnt seem to demonstrate that the vast majority of workers dont fall in the phd category in public or private sector. so while that may be where public is least compensated, i bet it makes up the smallest % of total workers. 2. i bet that a lot of the Phd's in the private sector work in jobs/companies where they actually add value. in the public sector, people get masters degrees and phd's in fields that are worthless and dont bring in revenue and/or they simply get the degrees because it bumps up their pay while basically doing the same job. so i doubt that in spite of them having the same level of education, that the public worker phd's are really equal to the private sector ones. of course, there are plenty of exceptions but im saying thats what you will find in most cases.

Just a bit selective and pretty quick with value judgements (without support)?

Federal Employees Paid A Quarter Less Than The Private Sector: BLS

Federal vs. private-sector pay: No comparison is definitive, auditors say - The Washington Post
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Old 11-30-2012, 08:54 AM
 
Location: NJ
12,284 posts, read 29,614,089 times
Reputation: 5166
Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfFull View Post
LOL - not as black and white as the ole Capt thinks.
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Old 11-30-2012, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Epping,NH
2,097 posts, read 5,147,514 times
Reputation: 1046
Currently have over a million and a half active military. Many more reserves on those lists. You really think those numbers don't run up the costs?

Anyone with two kids in school is sucking down more tax dollars then they are putting in. So tax on the number of kids in school. I've been paying more tax to put others kids through school than for emergency services.
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