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Old 07-28-2010, 07:12 AM
 
Location: NJ/NY
9,618 posts, read 9,471,712 times
Reputation: 6743

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rscalzo View Post
Or don't violate the statutes and save your money. You sound like you want a separate set of rules for those that can pay their way out of violations? Maybe it can be extended up to Disorderly Persons offenses and even Indictable offenses. Maybe drive drunk and kill someone but, hey, I'll just pay a fee. My time is just too valuable to show up.
I think you need to lighten up a little. My original comments were tongue in cheek.
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Old 07-28-2010, 07:27 AM
 
Location: NJ
15,906 posts, read 10,962,018 times
Reputation: 10112
Default legal labrinyth spawns distrust

The perception that a scam is in play further disenfranchises the public from the bossom of the 'protrect and serve' crowd with a heapin helpin from the judiciary.

Live by the law, die by the law.

The law is no different than a firearm in that it can protect as well as do harm. With the fabled ex Somerset county prosecutor and 'Iron Mike' the judge, getting caught in their own web, this traffic scam follows that dead end path and has been 'legalized' from ensuring public safety to ensuring municipal coffers are filled.

Following the discovery of 'gold' in the California town of Bell, I would hope every citizen in every municipality looks into their own home town do'ins
and strikes gold from mining the labrinyth of local government.

What was the name of that movie with Chevy Chase and John Candy, where some travellers took a wrong turn off the NJ turnpike and ended up in that ultra corrupt fiefdom that existed in its own world of bizzare laws and rules?????

That movie has become the center of excellence for NJ municipalities to follow.
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Old 07-28-2010, 07:42 AM
 
14,777 posts, read 34,507,040 times
Reputation: 14278
Well, traffic court anywhere is pretty much nothing more than a money machine.

With that said, the sad part of this is that since you have no points on your license (assumption since you just moved here) and the ticket was only 2 points, you would have had no negative impact from just pleading guilty and paying the original fine. If you have only 2 points it generally falls into a grace period clause where your insurance company won't raise rates for just 2 points. Additionally, those 2 points drop off after a year with no further violations.

If you accumulate more than 2 points, then you start to incur penalties on your insurance. Additionally if you incur 6 points in 3 years, then you must pay an annual surcharge of $100 +$25 for each point over 6 until you have less than 6 points in the past 3 years.

The system is setup so that people who accumulate large numbers of points or tickets have the ability to pay upfront to the town in exchange for having the points eliminated. As you can see, the surcharges at both the state level and on your insurance can easily exceed the amount you would pay to the town through the prosecutors plea deal. There is a further trap setup that you can't plead to unsafe operation more than 2 times in a 5 year period. Unsafe operation is sort of the catch all and is what they allow you to plead to get out of points. Not that there aren't other options for more minor violations like yours, but unsafe operation is generally what's offered. It used to be a relatively cheap fine, but then the state caught on and added the $250 surcharge if you plead it to avoid points.

So, yes it's a money machine, but it's also like this everywhere even if the setup is a little different as to how the court works. The key is knowing what the consequences are depending on your situation. It would seem that for you, you could have just plead guilty and paid the fine without going to court with no further issues. If you got another ticket in the next year, then it might be in your interest to go to court and cut a deal.
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Epping,NH
2,097 posts, read 5,495,408 times
Reputation: 1052
Quote:
The system is setup so that people who accumulate large numbers of points or tickets have the ability to pay upfront to the town in exchange for having the points eliminated.
The ability for the Prosecutor to amend mv summons into a no point violation has been severely curtailed by the state.

Simply put in this article..

Quote:
The law in New Jersey is that a driver can have only 2 no-points tickets in a five year period. And, as a result of recent case law from the state's high court, that five year period starts with the most recently received ticket and counts back five years. Therefore, some people who assume that if their oldest ticket is five years old, they can still use a no pointer for a third ticket, will be very disappointed to find that may not be the case.
Many would ask for advice on how to plead regarding mv violations. While that was something I would not do, I pointed out a little known statute that would not allow state insurance companies to raise rates for minor (under 1-14mph over) speeding violations for the first offense. So instead of simply paying the fine of a hundred plus, they would amend to a no point violation for three hundred or more and still no have the protection of an insurance raise. Points attached to a violation does not hinder insurance companies from raising your rates.

Three
The law in New Jersey is that a driver can have only 2 no-points tickets in a five year period. And, as a result of recent case law from the state's high court, that five year period starts with the most recently received ticket and counts back five years. Therefore, some people who assume that if their oldest ticket is five years old, they can still use a no pointer for a third ticket, will be very disappointed to find that may not be the case.

Three points could easily be wiped out by taking a driver's class such as the MSF Basic Course and get a mc license along with the point reduction.

Quote:
With that said, the sad part of this is that since you have no points on your license (assumption since you just moved here) and the ticket was only 2 points, you would have had no negative impact from just pleading guilty and paying the original fine. If you have only 2 points it generally falls into a grace period clause where your insurance company won't raise rates for just 2 points. Additionally, those 2 points drop off after a year with no further violations.
Exactly right. Even going to court for a NG plea is not rocket science. You are not expected to be a lawyer, nor are you expected to know all the relivent cases on the subject. In my experience, acting like a normal person with no attitude gets you reasonable treatment in most cases. Coming in with a unbelieable story or no facts to back up your arguement...well then you're going to be disappointed. Many start and end their testimony with "I'm not guilty" with nothing inbetween.
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Old 07-28-2010, 11:57 AM
 
Location: NJ & NV
5,327 posts, read 12,339,953 times
Reputation: 2042
Just wanted to mention I heard last year that the NJ legislature changed the "unsafe driving - no points" deal so that you can only get 2 of them period. No more resetting after 5 years. That is changing the deal after it's made in my book, but it is what I heard from a local judge as he instructed everyone in the court prior to his sessions.
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Old 07-28-2010, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Epping,NH
2,097 posts, read 5,495,408 times
Reputation: 1052
This was a case decided in 2008. It may be what you are refering to:

Quote:

Patel v. MVC

Although not necessary to the disposition of this appeal, we make one final observation. The MVC argues that relief from the assessment of motor vehicle penalty points is afforded by subsection e. only after the third offense. That is a reasonable construction of the statute.

Subsection e. says that after a five-year interval occurs between offenses, "the prior offense shall not be considered a subsequent offense for the purpose of assessing . . . points under subsection d." N.J.S.A. 39:4-97.2e. (emphasis added). It does not say that the prior offense shall not be considered a third or subsequent offense for the purpose of assessing points. By its plain language, therefore, it limits relief from the assessment of points to subsequent offenses; it does not provide relief for third offenses. Simply put, points are to be assessed for the third conviction, regardless of whether five years passes between the second and third offenses. It is only to subsequent offenses, those occurring after the third offense, that the five-year gap applies.

Full tesxt
http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/mcs...atelvnjmvc.pdf
Patel seems to be the last case decided on the subject by NJ courts.

Quote:
I think you need to lighten up a little. My original comments were tongue in cheek.
Then put in the little smiley face..............
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Old 07-28-2010, 01:24 PM
 
101 posts, read 409,380 times
Reputation: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kracer View Post
The perception that a scam is in play further disenfranchises the public from the bossom of the 'protrect and serve' crowd with a heapin helpin from the judiciary.

Live by the law, die by the law.

The law is no different than a firearm in that it can protect as well as do harm. With the fabled ex Somerset county prosecutor and 'Iron Mike' the judge, getting caught in their own web, this traffic scam follows that dead end path and has been 'legalized' from ensuring public safety to ensuring municipal coffers are filled.

Following the discovery of 'gold' in the California town of Bell, I would hope every citizen in every municipality looks into their own home town do'ins
and strikes gold from mining the labrinyth of local government.

What was the name of that movie with Chevy Chase and John Candy, where some travellers took a wrong turn off the NJ turnpike and ended up in that ultra corrupt fiefdom that existed in its own world of bizzare laws and rules?????

That movie has become the center of excellence for NJ municipalities to follow.
"Nothing But Trouble"
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Old 10-26-2017, 07:45 PM
 
3 posts, read 2,224 times
Reputation: 10
Default similar experience with NJ muni court - traffic violation

I recently came back from an overseas visit to family and recieved a court summons for a traffic violation (obstruction of passage for another vehicle). I plead not guilty and appeared in court as I was not in the country. My wife told me that she was the one driving the car. Incidentally the police officer made a mistake by copying my details from running my plate into the document. I asked the public prosecutor to reissue this as it was not me. The guy was least interested in hearing out my side and asked for an adjournment. The judge adjourned as the cop was not in the court and issued a subpoena for the cop. I went for the adjourned date. This time there was a different judge and a different prosecutor. She (prosecutor)called me out in the middle and said the actual violation was more serious (!!!). I told her I was not in the country and the cop made a genuine mistake and probably he will recognize that. She said the cop was looking for me and I was not there so he left on important work! and will ask for adjournment. I waited for the Judge to call me. He called me and mentioned that the cop was looking for me. I told him I was sitting right there in the court (everybody there knows this). Obviously the cop was looking for the wrong person and I don't know who this cop is!!!. The Judge called the prosecutor and asked her if she saw the documents I presented (passport with entries for my trip). She claimed that she did not have time to review! and asked for adjournment. Judge said he will adjourn and asked the prosecutor to review the documents I had.I approached her immediately and she refused to look at documents and left the court.

Today I received two court letters. One for the adjourned date and another an arrest warrant issued oin my name to the police for contempt of court!!!.

Guess what - these guys are corrupt and this is how the legal system works here. There are a bunch of lawyers at some legal sites that will always tell you to take them to court and things will be different. This is basically a corrupt system and I am a first degree witness to that. Hopefully the next Judge may be of character (doubt it as people of character won't like this job).

Good luck all out there who are straight forward. I wish there is some way to expose these corrupt practices.
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Old 10-27-2017, 03:35 PM
 
1,688 posts, read 2,018,818 times
Reputation: 1118
williamJPen: Hire a lawyer before this gets out of hand.
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