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You've got only two consistent choices. One is that the government has an interest in absolutely everything, that there is no sphere of individual private action. The other is that sometimes people must be left to die as the consequences of their actions. Pick your poison.
Or we could acknowledge that the world isn't black and white, there are various shades of grey, and that the right answers/decisions are usually somewhere in the middle of said grey, not at the extremes.
So, in Seattle I can stroke my LEGALLY carried Ruger .22 lite pistol while smoking cannabis and hugging a girl who is legally topless under our giant statue of Lenin, but in Jersey I can't legally smoke an e-cig or even get my back waxed.
And the folks at home have the nerve to ask if I'm ever moving back
The thread title, "e-cigaretts illegal in NJ " is a bit misleading.
It's not that e-cigarettes are illegal in NJ, it's that you can't smoke them in public spaces. In other words, NJ is treating e-cigarettes the same as regular cigarettes.
The way I see it, all the smoking legislation isn't so much about taking away smokers' rights and telling people what they can and can not put in their bodies, it's about protecting NON SMOKERS' rights.
Electronic cigarettes may be smokeless and "only" emit vapor, but I think it's debatable whether or not that vapor is totally safe. Here is the warning label for blu e-cigarettes (that's the brand that's endorsed by Stephen Dorff in those black & white television commercials):
"blu can be purchased and used by anyone who is 18 years of age or older. It should not be used by children, pregnant or breast feeding women, people with heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes or people taking medicines for asthma or depression. Consult your physician before using any electronic cigarette product. CALIFORNIA PROPOSITION 65: Warning: This product contains nicotine, a chemical known to the state of California to cause birth defects or other reproductive harm."
Sorry, but that doesn't sound completely safe to me. And blu claims to be manufactured in the US, using only US materials. I'd love to see the safety info on the other e-cigarette brands that are all mostly coming out of China. How reliable do you think their safety & controls are?
I don't really care what you do with your life, but I don't want electronic cigarette vapor in my face. People can claim that the vapor is totally safe, but doesn't it contain nicotine? Among other "harmless" chemicals? If I light up inside a Chuck E. Cheese, do you want my electronic cigarette vapor in your kid's face?
If you agree that people don't have the right to smoke regular cigarettes and pipes in a restaurant, the office, on an airplane, or in a movie theater, why is it such a controversy to some that you also can't smoke an e-cigarette in the same types of places?
So, in Seattle I can stroke my LEGALLY carried Ruger .22 lite pistol while smoking cannabis and hugging a girl who is legally topless under our giant statue of Lenin, but in Jersey I can't legally smoke an e-cig or even get my back waxed.
And the folks at home have the nerve to ask if I'm ever moving back
You couldn't get your back waxed in NJ? That's horrible, dude.
If you agree that people don't have the right to smoke regular cigarettes and pipes in a restaurant, the office, on an airplane, or in a movie theater, why is it such a controversy to some that you also can't smoke an e-cigarette in the same types of places?
I started a fight with my brother-in-law over this. He works highway construction and smokes around two packs a day. My in-laws downsized and moved into a "smoke free" community. We were over there for dinner and he busted out the e-cig he purposefully bought to use at their house and starts puffing away at the table with my kids sitting there. I politely told him stop and then reminded him of where he could store it if he didn't. There is no evidence that the vapor they emit is actually completely benign and at a minimum it at least contains some trace amounts of nicotine.
Or we could acknowledge that the world isn't black and white, there are various shades of grey, and that the right answers/decisions are usually somewhere in the middle of said grey, not at the extremes.
Those who point to shades of gray are usually trying to demonstrate that black is white and vice-versa.
The thread title, "e-cigaretts illegal in NJ " is a bit misleading.
It's not that e-cigarettes are illegal in NJ, it's that you can't smoke them in public spaces. In other words, NJ is treating e-cigarettes the same as regular cigarettes.
The way I see it, all the smoking legislation isn't so much about taking away smokers' rights and telling people what they can and can not put in their bodies, it's about protecting NON SMOKERS' rights.
Electronic cigarettes may be smokeless and "only" emit vapor, but I think it's debatable whether or not that vapor is totally safe. Here is the warning label for blu e-cigarettes (that's the brand that's endorsed by Stephen Dorff in those black & white television commercials):
"blu can be purchased and used by anyone who is 18 years of age or older. It should not be used by children, pregnant or breast feeding women, people with heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes or people taking medicines for asthma or depression. Consult your physician before using any electronic cigarette product. CALIFORNIA PROPOSITION 65: Warning: This product contains nicotine, a chemical known to the state of California to cause birth defects or other reproductive harm."
Sorry, but that doesn't sound completely safe to me. And blu claims to be manufactured in the US, using only US materials. I'd love to see the safety info on the other e-cigarette brands that are all mostly coming out of China. How reliable do you think their safety & controls are?
I don't really care what you do with your life, but I don't want electronic cigarette vapor in my face. People can claim that the vapor is totally safe, but doesn't it contain nicotine? Among other "harmless" chemicals? If I light up inside a Chuck E. Cheese, do you want my electronic cigarette vapor in your kid's face?
If you agree that people don't have the right to smoke regular cigarettes and pipes in a restaurant, the office, on an airplane, or in a movie theater, why is it such a controversy to some that you also can't smoke an e-cigarette in the same types of places?
I'm guessing you're against humidifiers too. That's all they are, water vapor.
I'm guessing you're against humidifiers too. That's all they are, water vapor.
No, I'm not "against" humidifiers. I have a large floor model for the living room and a small portable one for the nightstand. But I don't carry my humidifier around with me and crank it up in other people's faces. Would that really be acceptable to people?
I'm not "against" e-cigs. Or regular cigs, for that matter. I'm a former smoker.
My point is that I don't think it's all that unreasonable for NJ to treat e-cigs the same as regular cigs when we're talking about whether or not you can light up or 'vape' in public spaces. Again, this is not about whether or not you have the right to smoke or 'vape' (you do). It's about WHERE you have the right.
Also, that vapor is NOT all water. Depending on the brand and type, it's water, propylene glycol or vegetable glycerin, synthetic nicotine, alcohol, and, if you are vaping flavored e-juice like Pina Colada, Chocolate Hazelnut or Marshmallow, it is also "artificial flavors" in that vapor. Considering these things are unregulated, and a lot of them are coming from overseas, the integrity and consistency of the ingredients are questionable.
There is not enough data or info yet to say it's completely harmless to inhale these things, either first hand or second hand. Obviously, they're safer than regular cigarettes, but that doesn't make them harmless. That's like saying Diet Pepsi is as healthy and as pure as water, because compared to regular Pepsi, Diet Pepsi is healthy.
I started a fight with my brother-in-law over this. He works highway construction and smokes around two packs a day. My in-laws downsized and moved into a "smoke free" community. We were over there for dinner and he busted out the e-cig he purposefully bought to use at their house and starts puffing away at the table with my kids sitting there. I politely told him stop and then reminded him of where he could store it if he didn't. There is no evidence that the vapor they emit is actually completely benign and at a minimum it at least contains some trace amounts of nicotine.
E-cig rebels.
Some guy was arrested last year for refusing to put out his e-cig on a Continental Airlines flight from Portland to Houston. They had to turn the plane around because of his "right" to vape. Pathetic.
Anyone using them thinking they are perfectly healthy is simply fooling themselves. But little research has been done on the effects of the vapor from them.
A mix of nicotine, propylene glycol, glycerin and sweetner may not be 100% healthy...but anyone with a lick of sense can see they are safer than a real cigarette which contains thousands of chemicals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rscalzo
Either way, they aren't doing the user any good.
I know a fair number of people who were able to quit smoking by using e-cigs. Some even have tapered off of the e-cigs. I would say that is doing some good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Docendo discimus
The way I see it, all the smoking legislation isn't so much about taking away smokers' rights and telling people what they can and can not put in their bodies, it's about protecting NON SMOKERS' rights.
Actually, such legislation has nothing to do with the rights of smokers or non-smokers. It has to do with taking away the rights of people to determine, for themselves, what legal behaviors they choose to allow (or not) within their privately-owned establishment. But that's a different topic than the one under discussion here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Docendo discimus
People can claim that the vapor is totally safe, but doesn't it contain nicotine?
Very miniscule amounts, far more than in a regular cigarette, and also without all of the other dangerous chemicals found in regular cigarette smoke. By the way, measurable amounts of nicotine are present (naturally) in cauliflower, eggplants, tomatoes, among other foods. In fact, eating 244 grams (about 8 ounces) of tomatoes exposes your body to the same amount of nicotine as you would receive from being around second hand smoke (what is known as, "passively smoking") for a three-hour period. (Nicotine In Vegetables: 20 Pounds Of Eggplant Equivalent To 1 Cigarette). The nicotine content is even higher in pureed tomatoes. If nicotine ingestion is a concern, you many want to hold the sauce on that Chuck E Cheese pizza.
Here is some information for anyone who cares to educate themselves a bit on e-cigs:
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