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i agree....a well-trained, responsible gun owner, would likely have done as you described. having grown up around guns my entire life, in an area where almost everyone has a gun, with a best friend who's father owns (still) a gun shop....my experience tells me that the people you describe are much more rare than people like to believe. and still, even trained gun owners have accidents. as a trained gun owner, i'm smart enough to know to not have them in the house with young children, in anything other than a gun safe, with ammunition locked seperately.
the only exceptions to this i personally believe are people who are highly trained - military, security, police, etc., who continue their training and fire their weapons regularly as practice/training.
Seeing as though this person in this video didn't even have time to dial 911, i'm just not buying this particular case as a good example of "if she had a gun...."
It seemed to me she heard a noise and went to investigate it. I hear a noise and I grab my benelli. when you buy a gun for HD, you typically (not always) get training because you want to be prepared. You're already spending the money on the firearm so you want to know how to make the best use of it should someone enter your home. I suspect if she heard that noise and her first move was to her gun (hypothetically assuming she had one and knew how to use it), I think the perp goes down. I can't say with certainty, but it looks to me that she had time to grab her weapon. And if she had it in her hands and aimed it properly (such that she looked like she's handled a firearm before) the perp probably would've stopped in his tracks. They typically don't run towards guns, they tend to back away. But, this is all hypothetical and the reality is she got her a** kicked up and down the house by big, mean, man who knew exactly what he was doing. It wasn't his first day at the rodeo. He started pummling her immediately.
I use to live in Atlanta. Everyone (somewhat of an exaggeration, but you get my point) has a gun down there, especially in the more rural areas. They also have a lot of ranch style houses with windows thart are easy to access. Every month you would read a story in the paper about some 80 year old woman who blew away a home invader. They would try to climb through the window, the old bitty would be sitting in the rocker with the Remington and boom halfway through the window the suspect was down. All these southern woman knew how to shoot and they knew they had the right to protect themselves in their home. Those two things make for a homeowner that act without hestitation when it comes to HD.
I think homeowners here in the US should be trained like Israeli citizens are for the military. Everyone should have to take a HD course before owning a home. If that was the case, criminals would think twice before they entered a home because they would know the homeowner is trained.
It seemed to me she heard a noise and went to investigate it. I hear a noise and I grab my benelli. when you buy a gun for HD, you typically (not always) get training because you want to be prepared. You're already spending the money on the firearm so you want to know how to make the best use of it should someone enter your home. I suspect if she heard that noise and her first move was to her gun (hypothetically assuming she had one and knew how to use it), I think the perp goes down. I can't say with certainty, but it looks to me that she had time to grab her weapon. And if she had it in her hands and aimed it properly (such that she looked like she's handled a firearm before) the perp probably would've stopped in his tracks. They typically don't run towards guns, they tend to back away. But, this is all hypothetical and the reality is she got her a** kicked up and down the house by big, mean, man who knew exactly what he was doing. It wasn't his first day at the rodeo. He started pummling her immediately.
I use to live in Atlanta. Everyone (somewhat of an exaggeration, but you get my point) has a gun down there, especially in the more rural areas. They also have a lot of ranch style houses with windows thart are easy to access. Every month you would read a story in the paper about some 80 year old woman who blew away a home invader. They would try to climb through the window, the old bitty would be sitting in the rocker with the Remington and boom halfway through the window the suspect was down. All these southern woman knew how to shoot and they knew they had the right to protect themselves in their home. Those two things make for a homeowner that act without hestitation when it comes to HD.
I think homeowners here in the US should be trained like Israeli citizens are for the military. Everyone should have to take a HD course before owning a home. If that was the case, criminals would think twice before they entered a home because they would know the homeowner is trained.
The problem is many people buy guns with the thought of defense, but don't get the training. and then to add to that, if she did have a gun, but wasn't prepared to shoot, but brandished it, and the perp had a gun...well things may have turned out differently as well. I grew up in an area where pretty much everyone has a gun, and I never once saw a story about someone blowing away a home invader. I sincerely doubt that it happens monthly in the Atlanta area. It makes for nice theater in a discussion, but I just don't buy it.
If we were like the Isrealis, I'd agree with you. They all know how to handle guns because they all do 2 years in the military. In fact, it should just be part of obtaining a gun - you have to take firearms courses. Then if that were the case, i'd agree with your last paragraph there.
and yes, it is different than the street scenario. that's a couple too many ifs for me. and even if she was trained and responsible, there's no guarantee she wouldn't miss.
given this video, she'd probably be as you said, well within her rights. but if the person had kicked the door down and she immediately shot him, then it's not as clear as you're stating. the child helps the case though.
i'm with you - i don't feel comfortable with a gun in my home with little kids, and i am fairly well versed with guns.
as far as getting it in time, while still being safe, Captain's biometric safe idea is the best idea. they make them specifically for handguns. the one in the top left is probably the best for these situations (Biometric Gun Safes - Fingerprint Gun Safes | GunVault).
But still, now we're assuming she gets a gun out safely and doesn't endanger her own child. I dunno - that's a lot of things that need to go right.
as for being ok with shooting someone who is aggressively charging in your home - sure, i can agree with that. but now, you just have to prove it in court.
Wasn't there that case where a TX father saw his child being assaulted and killed the assailant with a couple of punches? Didn't even need to go to court - there were no charges (who knows in NJ though!). That guy might never intended to kill the child, but really, who cares? I think if I was protecting my children, I would gladly take the risk of having to prove my case in court.
Personally I would not have a gun in my home unless I was sure I would never miss. Yes it's a risk but I agree, a risk that is worth it in this situation. NOW, in the big picture knowing how rare home invasions are....I AGREE, I am not going to take that risk. You have to assume some reasonability here.
But if there were a string of attacks in the area like this, different story and risk calculation, right?
I think for the purpose of debate it is easier to discuss things in the context of this case alone - and I think most of us are agreeing. If she happened to shoot this guy based on the video we saw and kill him, most of us would not think anything other than that he deserved it. HE is the one taking the risk entering a home the way he did. If it turned out he was just insane and thought he was in a movie - well that would be a factor but she would still have a pretty iron clad case.
Re: MPD I was going by what you were saying in your prior post that they can't be expeted to do anything without someone calling and ID'ing the guy.
Wasn't there that case where a TX father saw his child being assaulted and killed the assailant with a couple of punches? Didn't even need to go to court - there were no charges (who knows in NJ though!). That guy might never intended to kill the child, but really, who cares? I think if I was protecting my children, I would gladly take the risk of having to prove my case in court.
Personally I would not have a gun in my home unless I was sure I would never miss. Yes it's a risk but I agree, a risk that is worth it in this situation. NOW, in the big picture knowing how rare home invasions are....I AGREE, I am not going to take that risk. You have to assume some reasonability here.
But if there were a string of attacks in the area like this, different story and risk calculation, right?
I think for the purpose of debate it is easier to discuss things in the context of this case alone - and I think most of us are agreeing. If she happened to shoot this guy based on the video we saw and kill him, most of us would not think anything other than that he deserved it. HE is the one taking the risk entering a home the way he did. If it turned out he was just insane and thought he was in a movie - well that would be a factor but she would still have a pretty iron clad case.
Re: MPD I was going by what you were saying in your prior post that they can't be expeted to do anything without someone calling and ID'ing the guy.
there was also a case in texas where a man in his house saw someone break into his car in his driveway, came out of the house, shot and killed the man as the man was running down the street, and wasn't found guilty.
the critical part of your example is the word Texas.
we live in New Jersey.
plus, if you killed someone with punches, you're not exactly using excessive force like if you shot them with a gun upon entering your house. in this particular case of the video - if she had a gun, what we saw in this video might be entirely different, that's my point.
as for MPD, i didn't mean to imply there are doing nothing unless they get an ID. but really, their investigation will hit a limit. i'm sure they've interviewed neighbors, ran fingerprints through their database, etc. etc. if none of that hits, all they can do is follow whatever the next clue is.
I wonder what would happen to me or my wife if this happened in our home. We have some items of value, like an iPad, our phones, and some other stuff, but we never have cash (so finding the purse would be useless), our jewelry is junk, and I no longer have a laptop for someone to easily steal. So would the a-hole beat us harder cause now he's mad he didn't get anything, or would he leave us alone?
either way, I'm glad I have a large, scary looking dog, nosy neighbors, and a house that's difficult to easily approach for a break-in like this.
someone i know in millburn told me he actually kicked down a dead-bolted back door? that seems pretty insane. i wonder how she didn't have time to call the cops if he was kicking a door in? though it's easy to say that as an observer.
If a druggie needs his fix, they don't think rationally, so they will kick in a door in daylight hours. Knowing he kicked the door in only strengthens my belief that he needed a fix. If they feel they can't get that fix, like the person not having cash or anything of value, they may become more brutal.
As for her not hearing the break in, it's possible she was napping with the baby, and that's why she didn't hear the door. I know when my kids would nap, I often fell asleep with them. Waking up startled, she could have been disoriented, thus unable to even think of calling 911. The war on drugs is lost, we need better rehab/addiction services, and much better mental health services. A lot of horrible things can be prevented, but that's another story.
In the meantime, women, kids, and even men, need to be prepared.
Personally, I keep my cell phone on me, in the event, God forbid, I ever had to deal with an intruder. I also keep a stun gun on me, and have a gun in a safe place. My husband also taught me how to use just about anything as a weapon, and keep them where I know they are. A pencil can be a dangerous thing, if stuck in the right place. Knowing pressure points can disable an attacker, without killing him, long enough for you to escape. Yes, leave your own house if you are attacked. Belongings can be replaced. Attackers are less likely to continue attacking in the streets where people may witness. Also, have a plan in case you can't leave your house. A hiding spot your kids and wife can hide safely until help arrives, like a closet, attic, or basement, are good ideas. Keep weapons, and even water in that spot, and if possible a phone that you keep charged. Most folks can afford a cheap burner phone. My husband also taught me that fear will inhibit my ability to fight, so try to control it, and stay focused. Expect to get hit, and don't let it bother you too much. It can prevent you from hitting back & saving your life. When you hit back make sure you hit the right spots so you can escape. You don't want to tussle, you want to disable your attacker as quick as possible. It seems like too much to think about, especially since the likelihood of an attack are slim(the dog decreases chances even more), but better safe than sorry. I hope I never have to use these techniques, but I'm grateful I have a husband who thinks ahead, and made sure we're prepared. All people should know the basics of self defense, and much of that info is online for free.
that's very comforting to the victim. I don't think "insanity" has any place in the judicial system.
You of all people should really support mental health services, and insanity pleas.
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