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yup. you can get something decent in my town for not much more than that, and have a decent commute to the Bridgewater/Morristown/Parsippany areas, but I think the person who posed the question would dismiss my area.
is it even worth starting another list of homes that are $200k or $300k for everyone to point out every little thing that's wrong with them? lol
Did you read my post at all? I listed entry level pay at $18k back in 1980 vs. $45k today. That seems like better income to me, at least in nominal terms.
More importantly, my post was never intended to "sh#t" on the younger generation as you put it. Rather, it's an observation that external financial conditions have become much more challenging for recent college grads to accumulate wealth as opposed to prior generations, (through no fault of their own).
Please read through people's posts more thoroughly next time before commenting.
yes, i completely misread your post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcatter13
These days, college kids graduate with a much heavier debt load than prior generations, while not earning substantially more income
i'm going to side with nybbler assuming he meant generally speaking. it's just not good life planning to prolong having kids intentionally. it's one thing if you meet someone later in your 20s or in your 30s. it's another if you get married at 22 and put off having kids for 10 years or 15 years because you're living under quite restricted financial conditions when you don't have to.
one thing i say to friends and family who will often say things like "i want to be ready to have kids" is....you'll never be ready, and you can't plan for everything. a friend of mine who is quite well paid and his wife has a very good job as well was driven close to bankruptcy from medical bills from having twins at 25 weeks. they literally exhausted their insurance coverages maximum amount...within 6 months. so you can save all you want for a house and put off having kids until later in life for financial reasons, but anything can happen.
don't be stupid with money, but i don't know why people would spend their 20s and possibly part of their 30s living a highly restricted life. enjoy life, money isn't everything.
let me guess, you did it right.
here's what nybbler said:
"It's a terrible time to start a family. Far too late. Even ignoring the biological issues with older parents, they'd be in their mid-50s by the time their oldest child left college (this being NNJ I assume child will go to college)."
He's said nothing about finances. I don't even understand why being in your mid 50's when the kid goes off the college is a problem (odds are they will be in better shape to help the kid in college than someone 40). There's no substance behind this claim, so we can only go by what he says, and IMHO, it's completely off base.
Back to your post, you said assuming he's speaking generally. What's "generally" when it comes to family planning? You immediately stated cases where it's advisable and/or understandable (meeting someone in your 30's, for example). There's nothing more gray shaded to me than people's circumstances when it relates to procreation. Wouldn't you rather a financially stable 35 year old couple have children than a pair of reckless 22 year old partiers? Why is planning a bad thing? I know more than ANYONE how life can sh** on you (BTW, I had preemie twins too and I was in the "acceptable" range of having kids according to this thread), but it doesn't mean I don't work towards a goal. And if someone's goal is to wait until 35 - what's the big deal? If the couple wants one person to stay home but they need to work an extra 5 yrs to make that happen, is that so horrible? OTOH, if this couple can make it happen 8 years earlier, good for them!
Isn't the bottom of the whole thing the love and support you give your child? Would I have traded my 40 something mother for someone 20 years younger? No. And in the end, isn't that what counts? I'm a well adjusted, a productive member of society raising (hopefully, LOL) productive members of society, so why her having me in her 40's a "terrible" idea?
i'm going to side with nybbler assuming he meant generally speaking. it's just not good life planning to prolong having kids intentionally. it's one thing if you meet someone later in your 20s or in your 30s. it's another if you get married at 22 and put off having kids for 10 years or 15 years because you're living under quite restricted financial conditions when you don't have to.
one thing i say to friends and family who will often say things like "i want to be ready to have kids" is....you'll never be ready, and you can't plan for everything. a friend of mine who is quite well paid and his wife has a very good job as well was driven close to bankruptcy from medical bills from having twins at 25 weeks. they literally exhausted their insurance coverages maximum amount...within 6 months. so you can save all you want for a house and put off having kids until later in life for financial reasons, but anything can happen.
don't be stupid with money, but i don't know why people would spend their 20s and possibly part of their 30s living a highly restricted life. enjoy life, money isn't everything.
I somewhat agree with this. As humans we often like to take control over nature. Nature has designed our bodies to have children between the ages of 15(even earlier actually)-30. While having kids in your 30's and 40's is entirely possible it does carry higher risks both for the mother and the baby(ies).
The fact is that we are living longer and working longer...the phrases 40 is the new 30 and 50 is the new 40 have never more accurate as its pertain to physical health and longevity but unfortunately the advances in these areas have not transferred over to increasing the "freshness" of eggs, physical age as it pertains to the bodies ability to carry a child, or the DNA integrity of sperm all of which start deteriorating,on average, at age 30.
My wife and I have had 2 kids in our 30's both happy and healthy. Most of our friends also have had children well into their 30's, all happy and healthy. We are certainly in a better financial position than we would be if we had the kids earlier in life but encouraging this as a general rule rather than an exception is really battling nature and the chances for problems, while still statically small, are higher as we age.
What this all has to rising mortgage rates is beyond me.
Last edited by Goldendoodle1969; 09-10-2013 at 08:33 AM..
I recall a saying, something about "forest and trees" and whatnot. Anyway...
well, you recall wrong. but anyways, my entire comment wasn't addressing just you. i quoted your comment because i was mentioning the income part. the part about the younger generation being shat on was a larger statement. sorry if it appeared to be a criticism of you specifically.
bottom line though, the younger generation is doing a lot to bring some financial sanity back to this world, in my opinion.
"It's a terrible time to start a family. Far too late. Even ignoring the biological issues with older parents, they'd be in their mid-50s by the time their oldest child left college (this being NNJ I assume child will go to college)."
He's said nothing about finances. I don't even understand why being in your mid 50's when the kid goes off the college is a problem (odds are they will be in better shape to help the kid in college than someone 40). There's no substance behind this claim, so we can only go by what he says, and IMHO, it's completely off base.
Back to your post, you said assuming he's speaking generally. What's "generally" when it comes to family planning? You immediately stated cases where it's advisable and/or understandable (meeting someone in your 30's, for example). There's nothing more gray shaded to me than people's circumstances when it relates to procreation. Wouldn't you rather a financially stable 35 year old couple have children than a pair of reckless 22 year old partiers? Why is planning a bad thing? I know more than ANYONE how life can sh** on you (BTW, I had preemie twins too and I was in the "acceptable" range of having kids according to this thread), but it doesn't mean I don't work towards a goal. And if someone's goal is to wait until 35 - what's the big deal? If the couple wants one person to stay home but they need to work an extra 5 yrs to make that happen, is that so horrible? OTOH, if this couple can make it happen 8 years earlier, good for them!
Isn't the bottom of the whole thing the love and support you give your child? Would I have traded my 40 something mother for someone 20 years younger? No. And in the end, isn't that what counts? I'm a well adjusted, a productive member of society raising (hopefully, LOL) productive members of society, so why her having me in her 40's a "terrible" idea?
well, i only assumed my interpretation of his comment because it's a relatively common discussion. there are the biological issues, which he was choosing to ignore, but the typical other reason to put off a family is financial. there are numerous other reasons why it happens later in life, and that's fine. i just think putting off having a child so you can save to have a child is a bit silly. now, that's not to be taken as i don't think you should not have savings for a child. and i think you're going a bit further out of context of this thread. the context of this thread was a couple in their early 20s, per Marc's post, should not have kids/dogs and save every penny possible to be able to buy a house in their late 20s (which I think is somewhat of a lofty expectation as an "averages" statement). i'm saying, if you want to have kids, you should have kids when you want. not wait until you think you're somehow magically "ready".
i'm also not saying don't plan. and if someone wants to wait until their 35, that's fine. i had a lot of classmates in HS who's parents were in their early or late 50s, so that experience somewhat shaped why I wanted kids in my late 20s or early 30s. and if they want a person to stay home, that's fine. i'm not sure what 5 extra years of work will do, either way, they'll have to budget to live on 1 income.
i also didn't use the term "terrible idea". maybe i didn't differentiate my thoughts well enough.
the way i did things was right for me. and i encourage others who are young and want kids to not put it off for some arbitrary reasons like saving more money to be "more prepared" or to have 30% down on a house instead of 20% down. if you keep putting off life until you're more prepared to live it, you're going to lose your opportunities to live it. as i said, there are reasons to put it off, i just don't particularly agree with the finance reason very much.
well, i only assumed my interpretation of his comment because it's a relatively common discussion. there are the biological issues, which he was choosing to ignore, but the typical other reason to put off a family is financial. there are numerous other reasons why it happens later in life, and that's fine. i just think putting off having a child so you can save to have a child is a bit silly. now, that's not to be taken as i don't think you should not have savings for a child. and i think you're going a bit further out of context of this thread. the context of this thread was a couple in their early 20s, per Marc's post, should not have kids/dogs and save every penny possible to be able to buy a house in their late 20s (which I think is somewhat of a lofty expectation as an "averages" statement). i'm saying, if you want to have kids, you should have kids when you want. not wait until you think you're somehow magically "ready".
i'm also not saying don't plan. and if someone wants to wait until their 35, that's fine. i had a lot of classmates in HS who's parents were in their early or late 50s, so that experience somewhat shaped why I wanted kids in my late 20s or early 30s. and if they want a person to stay home, that's fine. i'm not sure what 5 extra years of work will do, either way, they'll have to budget to live on 1 income.
i also didn't use the term "terrible idea". maybe i didn't differentiate my thoughts well enough.
the way i did things was right for me. and i encourage others who are young and want kids to not put it off for some arbitrary reasons like saving more money to be "more prepared" or to have 30% down on a house instead of 20% down. if you keep putting off life until you're more prepared to live it, you're going to lose your opportunities to live it. as i said, there are reasons to put it off, i just don't particularly agree with the finance reason very much.
I think you are misrepresenting diligence. Living a controlled and planned lifestyle where your goals are clear and you have a solid plan to meet them is hugely fun and rewarding. And in no way should be characterized as "waiting". It's not. It's living, but correctly. And there IS a correctly. And there IS an incorrectly. And untertaking responsibilities before the correct time and money are in place is doing things incorrectly.
No one is comparing costs today vs. 30 yrs ago. Construction costs are cheaper now than during the bubble years for sure.
Copper was $4.50 Jan 2011. $3.30 today.
Lumber was $400 a few months ago, now $327 today.
I beams, floor joists, prefab walls big builders use cut 30% lumber waste factor.
Builders 30 yrs ago actually built houses. Now they just sub to subcontractors and they sub to day laborers.
You can see new construction in Somerset cheaper then priced a few years back now.
ok, that makes much more sense. i don't really see the point of comparing the cost of anything to a period of time where we know so many things were inflated though. but i see what you're saying now.
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