More first-year teachers get $50K (Middlesex, Beverly: mortgage, insurance, mcmansion)

[fischfan13]

<<<Was once an overpaid State worker...until I took a nice sized buyout.

[hrjersey]

I just finished going through the new posts but there was one that I had to respond to. If PITNURSE70 wants to know why teachers always "sound" like we are crying it's because we are constantly made out to sound like slackers that don't work hard, get paid too much and laugh all the way to the bank. Then went on to quote me as somone who doesn't like parents, students etc. Let me make this really clear.

I LOVE MY JOB. I LOVE TEACHING MY KIDS...but like everything...it isn't perfect. I work hard...not harder than others but not less than others either which is what some people seem to think. Unfortunately when one is put in the position of defending their job it makes them sound like they are better than others. I don't feel this way. I worked hard in my last job. Regularly working 12 hours or more per day. When I went on vacation I had to take my cell phone and laptop so I could be at everyone's beck and call and I don't miss that at all. I also didn't feel like I was contributing to anything. I've made a decision to leave that behind.

I have some great parents that I enjoy working with and others that make teaching their children more difficult rather than less...do I have to say that all parents are great in order to be a good teacher?

I have 17 years experience...not in teaching children but much of which was training adults so when I began teaching 2 years ago I started at the bottom of the pay scale. Not a bad salary but I would certainly like to be paid more...interesting too that some new teachers look up to me as a mentor since life experience and parenthood can often be much greater than college courses in pedagogy.

I LOVE MY JOB. If I could afford to do it without being paid I would - that's how much I love it. I said it before and I'll say it again...the tax problem is much greater than teacher's salaries.

[jersey79]

[quote=MPBsr;2016712]When will this freakin madness end? I don't blame the teachers for trying to get whatever they can, but where do you think the money is going to come from?
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At least 17 districts agree to such pay
Friday, November 16, 2007
BY JOHN MOONEY
Star-Ledger Staff

Two decades after New Jersey passed a law setting the minimum teacher pay at $18,500, a rising number of school districts are passing a salary milestone for their rookies: $50,000.


Listen, I understand that a majority of tax payers in this state are over taxed. However, teachers in certain districts do deserve more pay. I've had the luxury of teaching Emotionally Disturbed teenagers in both Camden and in Union City, NJ. I think the problem with the perception that 50,000 dollars is too much for a beginning teacher comes from the fact that many see that teachers have summers off, get home earlier than most, and get off for every major holiday.

However, this is not the case for most teachers. For example, my day starts around 7:15, I arrive early to grade papers, set up the classroom for the day, etc...At 8:00 my 11 Emotionally Disturbed students pour into their seats and class begins. From 8- 11:20, I teach reading/language arts and begin math. (Note: I have 4 different groups in every subject: one 8th grade group, one 7th grade group, one 6th grade group, and a 4th grade group.) Not only do I need to plan for 4 distinctly different lessons for 4 distinctly different grade levels in each subject, I must plan "center" activities to occupy the students that I am not working with at any given time. At 11:20 my class goes to lunch, my only break is given up to work lunch duty. I watch about 300 7th graders during my lunch period. Once lunch ends, I pick up my students, finish math, science, and history by 2:15,then I am allotted a prep where I can finish any paper work that I might have. The kids leave at 3:00, I stay another two hours to teach an extended day program (where I am paid extra, about 25 dollars a hour.). Most nights I walk into my apartment at around 5:30 or 6pm. At least 2 nights a week, I spend my free time at home completing paper work.

Of course I am not mentioning the daily issues that come with teaching Emotionally Disturbed teenagers (and recently, three 4th graders that were so out of control that they needed to be moved to a middle school classroom). A typical day consists of being cursed off, threats of assaults, and the occasional fight (which typically doesn't happen when I'm in the room, but once a "specials teacher" (Art, Music, Gym, etc...) enters the room, all bets are off. ) One day, during my students' art time, I left to go to a meeting. My students were quietly working when I left. I returned to see that one of my students was bleeding from a gash on his arm, which was caused by another student who stabbed him with a pen. Another time I had to physically remove scissors from a student who told me that he would stab me in the neck if I came any closer (I made the mistake of not checking that all the scissors were put away after a project). This stemmed from the fact that I kept this student from his gym class because of his behavior. So he decided in order to get out of my room, he was going to cut his hand with the scissors. I have tons of stories like the aforementioned. The lives of some of these kids are heartbreaking. (I couldn't count the number of times money has come out of my pocket for breakfast, 8th grade pictures, air mattresses for students who sleep on beds with more than one sibling, etc...)

By the end of the year, most of my students show tremendous growth both academically and behaviorally. The majority of teachers that I have had the pleasure of working with (in Union City and Camden) go through the same daily routines as I do. There are others that sign in at 7:50 and are out by 3:00pm.

I have worked other jobs in construction, as a bartender, as an exterminator, and various other jobs. None have come close to being as stressful as teaching or carry the same work load. My friends in the business world, have time for breaks during the day, have time to email and im me while they are at work (receive these when I return home), and are given almost as much paid vacation time as teachers get. (Note: teachers are not paid over the summer, we are 10 month employees. Many teachers have to work second jobs over their summer vacations. The past two years I have only had about two weeks off during my summer breaks.)

I ask that you please excuse this hastily written reply. Like I said, I understand that the average person is being killed by taxes. However, you get what you pay for. I have seen many talented young teachers leave the teaching profession to pursue more profitable careers. Likewise, many teachers in the many of New Jersey's urban districts leave to work in more affluent areas for better pay and less stress. If you want a quality education for your children, you need to pay your teachers more. Teachers should be held to high standards, but with that must come higher pay. Right now, I put in 10 hours almost everyday. No matter how hard I work and how much my students progress, I get paid the exact same as a teacher who signs in at 7:55 and races out of the building by 3:00. There is really no incentive to put in extra time, other then the pleasure one receives from watching these young men and women achieve something that they never dreamed possible.

Again, excuse this poorly written post. Just figured I would give you another perspective on this.

[jersey79]

It is important to remember that one of the biggest issues I see with most school districts is that money is being poorly spent, especially in urban districts. Also, unqualified or poorly qualified individuals being appointed to positions because of political ties and/or family ties is a huge problem in many urban districts and wastes a tremendous amount of tax payer money.

[jersey79]

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

I should probably just let this go, as it seems everyone has their positions pretty firm on these issues.

As far as me quoting anyone, it started when badfish said he never heard any negativity from teachers. I went back and found quotes from several teachers who certainly expressed how hard their teaching lives were. I said there seemed to be a lot of animosity towards parents. That is what you guys posted. I didn't make it up!

It's good to hear a teacher say they love their job! I think it would be good for all of us to focus more on what we like about our jobs. Myself included!

Pittnurse70,

I agree, we should all focus more on what we like about our jobs. I love teaching. As hectic as my day maybe, I couldn't see myself doing anything else. I didn't mean to come off as belittling any other professions in my last post, or did I mean to infer that teaching is tougher than all other professions (it isn't). However, I have seen my profession belittled on several occasions by many who make much more money than I do, and sometimes I feel the need to clarify what many teachers do and put up with on a day to day basis. By the way, my mom was an emergency room nurse for many years, I have nothing but the utmost respect for nurses, and would not want to deal with the stresses that go along with their job (the same is true with other professions as well).

[Badfish740]

Originally Posted by jersey79

However, I have seen my profession belittled on several occasions by many who make much more money than I do, and sometimes I feel the need to clarify what many teachers do and put up with on a day to day basis.

Funny how the pendulum of public opinion swings. Back when I started in school I had briefly considered teaching and quickly dropped it (before evenually returning to it as a major) because I continually heard that there was no money in it! In fact, my ex-girlfriend's father said flat out that I'd never be able to support a family as a teacher and that I'd have to paint houses or mow lawns in the summer. Amazing...

[jersey79]

Originally Posted by Badfish740

Funny how the pendulum of public opinion swings. Back when I started in school I had briefly considered teaching and quickly dropped it (before evenually returning to it as a major) because I continually heard that there was no money in it! In fact, my ex-girlfriend's father said flat out that I'd never be able to support a family as a teacher and that I'd have to paint houses or mow lawns in the summer. Amazing...

I don't think teachers are necessarily paid poorly. And, I think most who go into the profession understand exactly what you ex's father pointed out (which is not entirely correct.) However, I think my point was, which I didn't articulate well, that many feel that teaching is a easy profession, and on several occasions I have heard people imply that my worth as a professional was low because of how they viewed the teaching profession. Many were in professions that paid much more and seemed to place how important your career was and how intelligent you are based on your salary (which is sheer ignorance). And, I'm not complaining about their pay vs. my pay, I chose this career knowing exactly what I was going to be paid.

[JERSEY MAN]

Originally Posted by jersey79

I don't think teachers are necessarily paid poorly. And, I think most who go into the profession understand exactly what you ex's father pointed out (which is not entirely correct.) However, I think my point was, which I didn't articulate well, that many feel that teaching is a easy profession, and on several occasions I have heard people imply that my worth as a professional was low because of how they viewed the teaching profession. Many were in professions that paid much more and seemed to place how important your career was and how intelligent you are based on your salary (which is sheer ignorance). And, I'm not complaining about their pay vs. my pay, I chose this career knowing exactly what I was going to be paid.

Jersey79/ I applaud you for your dedication to your career. You are one of the dedicated members. But we as Govt. employees, myself law enforcement in one of the worst cities in NJ for 30 years have to remember that there is a long list of people that will take our jobs if we are to stressed or don't want to do them. We answer to the people that pay our salaries and pensions, that is most of the people that are property owners in this state. Yes there are cops and teachers that do nothing and get paid more than us. Most of the complaints are about the teachers that you quote, the ones that come in at 8 and leave at three. I have them also in my field.

[natalayjones]

You know I thought about this thread all last night and I called one of my teacher friends in Alabama. To my shock, she agreed that 50k was extreme for first year teachers. She's also in favor of pay based on merit, as she says there are several teachers she works with who refer to the kids as brats and spend very little time on lesson plans and such...so teachers KNOW that all teachers aren't good teachers.

She said her main issue was not that she was underpaid (she said she is content with the 37K she makes and she's been teaching 3 years now) but undervalued. She said that the public doesn't really show any interest in teachers until something bad happens. When companies do well it's front page news, but when a group students who could barely read can tackle Faust by the end of the semester, no one cares. On the flip side, when a group of students fail - everyone blames the teacher.

But that's the case with any job, how many times have you been praised for doing your job? But do something wrong and all hell breaks loose.

[Bill Keegan]

Originally Posted by natalayjones

You know I thought about this thread all last night and I called one of my teacher friends in Alabama. To my shock, she agreed that 50k was extreme for first year teachers. She said her main issue was not that she was underpaid (she said she is content with the 37K she makes and she's been teaching 3 years now) .

I did a quick online comparison of the cost of living in NJ as compared to Alabama. Interesting. It showed that the lifestyle one lives with $50k in NJ can be had in Alabama for $34k.