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You know this country is doomed when a thread about the perilous economic state of doctors comes up. What's next? There's a caviar shortage in Alpine?
in all fairness, PCPs are not very highly compensated doctors. that's the main reason why there is a shortage, and the shortage is nationwide, not just in NJ. also - medical schools do not have enough space to meet the demand of the number of people who want to pursue medical degrees, which is causing the shortage to be even worse.
in all fairness, PCPs are not very highly compensated doctors. that's the main reason why there is a shortage, and the shortage is nationwide, not just in NJ. also - medical schools do not have enough space to meet the demand of the number of people who want to pursue medical degrees, which is causing the shortage to be even worse.
I'm sorry. But I've never met a poor or even middle class doctor driving a Hyundai.
And if they're "struggling" they knew what they were getting into like recent law school grads who are glorified paralegals.
Lots of drs get degrees in Mexico or the Caribbean. If you want to go you can.
Well, that settles it. Since you haven't met one they must not exist.
In rural Alabammy maybe.
For example, my eye dr. has an office in NYC and a few more out in NJ. He lives on UES. He works nearly every day of the year except maybe Jewish holidays. Now if HE wasn't making high six figures to $1 million+ I'd be shocked.
Is it possible that it just doesn't make financial sense to be a doctor anymore ? 8 years of education, staggering tuitions, staggering malpractice insurance costs and attorneys chasing every avenue possible to extract large awards even when most find a situation frivolous just to settle out of court to make a case go away ? Doctors start off eyeball deep in debt and then fight an uphill battle for their own practice.....doesn't sound inviting to me ?
Makes sense. I would make more in Texas or North Carolina, or much of the South actually, than I do here. Anesthesia is the type of medicine that has to be run as a group (business). Any type of medicine CAN be run that way, but for certain specialties, it HAS to be that way. When you join a group, supply and demand dictates your income, so the places where everyone wants to be often pays the least because the partners in the group have a larger pool to choose from. Many primary care specialties are run this way now too, as it is getting harder and harder to form a solo practice.
I have other businesses here, and family so I am not going anywhere, but if I were a new graduate just starting out I'm not sure I would stay in NJ either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
How will ACA make it worse? This is not a government run health plan, the plans are going to be the same plans available right now for individualsl Blue Cross, etc. They aren't going to pay any less than they already do. It should make it better for Dr's if people who didn't have insurance before do now.
The ACA expands the medicaid rolls by the tens of millions. Thats millions more people that we are lucky to break even on. It's a lot more work for no more money. Hopefully there will be enough people forced to buy decent insurance to make up for it. Dont get me wrong, we NEED to treat these people and I am all for treating them. Everyone deserves health care, but dont be under the illusion that this is some windfall for doctors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EBWick
If there are less drs. we just import them from India. Globalism at work.
That's right. Lets make this a country where the only people who can make a good living are people with business degrees. I can only guess that you would rather pay Wall Street types than doctors, because that is what you are asking for. As it is, many of our best and brightest forego careers in medicine to make REAL money on Wall Street.
But this is not possible anyway. Contrary to popular belief, it is not medical school positions that are limiting the number of doctors. It is residency spots. Medicare funds residency programs, and there just isn't enough money in medicare to significantly increase the amount of positions. It costs more than $100,000 per year to train 1 resident. Your Indian friends would have to do a residency in the USA and there just isn't enough spots for all of them. There are enough positions for 125% of US graduates, and the Americans that go to foreign schools get first crack at the extra 25%. Then, the foreigners that DO manage to get through may not want to stay in NJ any more than the people fleeing the state now. There are lots of hurdles to jump before your plan can work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ
do more seasoned doctors bill insurance companies more money for the same services as new doctors? another question i have would be what are the differences for what doctors get paid for the same services in various states? if you can bill almost the same in a state with a much lower cost of living; then you are better off practicing there.
More seasoned doctors are full, 100% partners in the groups. Also, if you are seasoned and build up a good reputation, you can choose to be only out of network, which pays a lot more than in network. Also, your practice can be busy enough that you dont have to take medicare or medicaid. Not that I endorse any of this, but this is what goes on. If you are a solo practitioner, just out of residency, you take whatever you can get.
Last edited by AnesthesiaMD; 09-26-2013 at 03:44 PM..
and so why would more doctors leave NJ? if more people are able to pay a doctor, doesn't that mean more doctors would join practices here?
its actually across the board, not nj specific. but it will probably hit some areas harder depending on the current doctor population.
they wont join practices here if they don't have a problem getting enough volume elsewhere. if they are going to get the volume anywhere, they may as well go somewhere with a lower cost of living.
Makes sense. I would make more in Texas or North Carolina, or much of the South actually, than I do here. Anesthesia is the type of medicine that has to be run as a group (business). Any type of medicine CAN be run that way, but for certain specialties, it HAS to be that way. When you join a group, supply and demand dictates your income, so the places where everyone wants to be often pays the least because the partners in the group have a larger pool to choose from. Many primary care specialties are run this way now too, as it is getting harder and harder to form a solo practice.
I have other businesses here, and family so I am not going anywhere, but if I were a new graduate just starting out I'm not sure I would stay in NJ either.
The ACA expands the medicaid rolls by the tens of millions. Thats millions more people that we are lucky to break even on. It's a lot more work for no more money. Hopefully there will be enough people forced to buy decent insurance to make up for it. Dont get me wrong, we NEED to treat these people and I am all for treating them. Everyone deserves health care, but dont be under the illusion that this is some windfall for doctors.
That's right. Lets make this a country where the only people who can make a good living are people with business degrees. I can only guess that you would rather pay Wall Street types than doctors, because that is what you are asking for. As it is, many of our best and brightest forego careers in medicine to make REAL money on Wall Street.
But this is not possible anyway. Contrary to popular belief, it is not medical school positions that are limiting the number of doctors. It is residency spots. Medicare funds residency programs, and there just isn't enough money in medicare to significantly increase the amount of positions. It costs more than $100,000 per year to train 1 resident. Your Indian friends would have to do a residency in the USA and there just isn't enough spots for all of them. There are enough positions for 125% of US graduates, and the Americans that go to foreign schools get first crack at the extra 25%. Then, the foreigners that DO manage to get through may not want to stay in NJ any more than the people fleeing the state now. There are lots of hurdles to jump before your plan can work.
More seasoned doctors are full, 100% partners in the groups. Also, if you are seasoned and build up a good reputation, you can choose to be only out of network, which pays a lot more than in network. Also, your practice can be busy enough that you dont have to take medicare or medicaid. Not that I endorse any of this, but this is what goes on. If you are a solo practitioner, just out of residency, you take whatever you can get.
Just pointing out reality, doc. They've got Indians reading Xrays for 1/10 the cost right now. That's what globalism has unleashed. We should be thankful the Chinese don't speak English well.
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