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Mike and Tahiti, you are correct, the dumps up here are no running water, dirt floors, I mean nothing like what was mentioned above. Yes I do get out, this is a different kind of poverty as mike described. You have not seen anything like it in NJ. These people would take the mountain in NJ and consider them rich. Thanks for all the posts, and I do get out quite a bit, these dumps are very different. Just have to see it for yourself .
I re read your post Mike and its perfect. I have landed a good job here I mean higher pay than NJ, but this was rare. I do love it here, I love my beautiful log cabin, land ,mountain and river but I am in a rare class. Up here you have a few professionals, NYSEG engineers do well, prison guards, Suny, and what I do, county social work but its damn poor. You mentioned those towns and yes you described it too a tea. This is a big shock for someone who lived in NJ all their life. I think you get it. I was no where near prepared for that. Now the people are nice as hell, but still makes you appreciate NJ in this one classification!!!!!!
By the way, how do you know so much about NY State? Also, I was thinking about driving around those little suburbs of ALbany, I recently did the Glens Falls, Saratoga Route. WHat would be a nice area to drive around by Albany, those towns you mentioned. Funny MIke I have a friend moving to Davinport, NY by Oneonta, he says its rural what do you think of that area?
Lastly, I did not have to work Mike, just wanted to hike and fish all day but this job fell into my lap. Husband is now getting a little used to the area, the neighbors are really nice and love that he is a good auto mechanic. They have him doing side jobs and making money. Funny for two people who wanted to retire , we are both working but its a better work condition for us, we dont care if we lose our jobs!!!! I am not in the dumpy area like Altoona, or Champlain, I am in the nice area in the Park , plattsburgh is outside the park.
Lastly, what do you think of BUrlington vt, have not been there yet but people say its a cool city??? Have not even went to Montreal yet either. I dont know where I am going with this, just wanted to tell you all this . Thanks Mike and the rest of you. I am going to see both set of parents my Thankgiving, back to the land of the rich and famous!!!!!!! This is a joke. SMILE at least its not dumps. ITs funny someone mentioned beauty and nature in NJ and in the same sentence poverty in NJ. They do not have dumps like here or nearly the mountain and nature like here. Its a trade.
Mike are you still in NM?? Did you ever get used to the dumps? How were the people? Are you back in NJ? Yes you were right, thats why I posted a positive for NJ!!!!!
Last edited by stevemorse; 11-21-2007 at 11:25 AM..
I re read your post Mike and its perfect. I have landed a good job here I mean higher pay than NJ, but this was rare. I do love it here, I love my beautiful log cabin, land ,mountain and river but I am in a rare class. Up here you have a few professionals, NYSEG engineers do well, prison guards, Suny, and what I do, county social work but its damn poor. You mentioned those towns and yes you described it too a tea. This is a big shock for someone who lived in NJ all their life. I think you get it. I was no where near prepared for that. Now the people are nice as hell, but still makes you appreciate NJ in this one classification!!!!!!
By the way, how do you know so much about NY State? Also, I was thinking about driving around those little suburbs of ALbany, I recently did the Glens Falls, Saratoga Route. WHat would be a nice area to drive around by Albany, those towns you mentioned. Funny MIke I have a friend moving to Davinport, NY by Oneonta, he says its rural what do you think of that area?
Lastly, I did not have to work Mike, just wanted to hike and fish all day but this job fell into my lap. Husband is now getting a little used to the area, the neighbors are really nice and love that he is a good auto mechanic. They have him doing side jobs and making money. Funny for two people who wanted to retire , we are both working but its a better work condition for us, we dont care if we lose our jobs!!!! I am not in the dumpy area like Altoona, or Champlain, I am in the nice area in the Park , plattsburgh is outside the park.
Lastly, what do you think of BUrlington vt, have not been there yet but people say its a cool city??? Have not even went to MOntreal yet either. I dont know where I am going with this, just wanted to tell you all this . Thanks Mike and the rest of you. I am going to see both set of parents my and huisbands for thankgiving, back to the land of the rich and famous!!!!!!! This is a joke. SMILE at least its not dumps. ITs funny someone mentioned beauty and nature in NJ and in the same sentence poverty in NJ. They do not have dumps like here or nearly the mountain and nature like here. Its a trade.
I had a job essentially geocoding a lot of Upstate NY, including parts of the Upper Hudson Valley, then into the Adiorondack Region. Clinton, Saratoga, Washington, Albany, Schenectady, Scoharie, Rensaelear, Columbia, Greene, damn, what other counties am I missing... I was partially responsible for collecting geographical data for these areas. I've vacationed in Hinesburg VT, which is right outside of Burlington. Burlington = college town, which is to say, nice, fluffy, soft edges. More government regulation, meaning more covenants on land use, and the working population is very tied into the university. The areas surrounding Burlington to the south and south west are quite quaint. Even northeast in Stowe, is a beautiful resort area. Go north, however, up by St. Albans and Swanton, and you are essentially getting the tail end of Clinton County, culturally, anyway. More hardscrabble, poverty, etc. The look/feel around Burlington is different than even the most rural part of NJ, though, because the majority of the land use is still agricultural. I've also driven Otsego County, around Oneonta for my prior job. This is a mill/rail town, therefore, the base economy is going to differ. (That said, SUNY has a branch university there) Any area 5 miles outside of Oneonta, particularly heading north, is very rural, and poor rural at that. The one crown jewel in this area is Cooperstown, which is about 30 miles northeast. I think Columbia County is directly south of the Susquehana river, from my memory, once you head up into the mountains out of the valley, the poverty becomes pronounced there as well.
For a really nice drive, you want to do the loop around Great Sacandaga lake. Absolutely beautiful scenery. The homes here are mostly second home owners from downstate. It's much more bent to non-native population. Another beautiful drive is old US 4, from Glens Falls, down to Waterford, before greater Albany transitions the area into more of a city feel.
Thanks for all that!!! So lets say you wanted a country feel, but a job not professional, and somewhat of a not too far drive to a city. I was thinking some area outside ALbany? I have not ventured in that area yet. I know the Sacandaga area very well, actually had a chance to buy into a business in a town called Broadalbien, but declined, it was too dead. However, just wondering about Albany suburbs, I know Green county hiked all the mountains, but do not know Burnt Hills, Clifton Park and Rexford that you metioned what are they like/???
Thanks for all that!!! So lets say you wanted a country feel, but a job not professional, and somewhat of a not too far drive to a city. I was thinking some area outside ALbany? I have not ventured in that area yet. I know the Sacandaga area very well, actually had a chance to buy into a business in a town called Broadalbien, but declined, it was too dead. However, just wondering about Albany suburbs, I know Green county hiked all the mountains, but do not know Burnt Hills, Clifton Park and Rexford that you metioned what are they like/???
Those are bedroom communities of Albany. It's mostly residential. If you want a more rural area that's not to far of a drive to the city, the US rt 4 drive that I mentioned is what you are looking for.
Awwww Thank You Mike!! You sound like an interesting guy who has done a lot of traveling. I like you!! I will start reading more of your posts. You know another mind blower up here is that despite people are so poor, they are very resourceful.
The biggest is that they are very nice!! I thought they would be angry, but they are happy. Someone once told me when I asked how could they be so happy being so poor. There answer was : They don't know they are poor till someone points it out to them. This is an interesting statement.
I love where I am just realistic about the negitives, less opportunities in lots of areas, but I came to scale my life down, hike , retire and live in the woods. I got that, maybe in 5 years I will get tired of this, I love the seasons, but maybe I will get tired of the cold winters. For now I am the ADK kid!!! I have my rustic little cabin, my snow shoes over my garage, my ADk wavy siding, my little great camp and IM HAPPY. I dont know if I will ever go back to NJ, but maybe go back to something with more civilization. This was a big learning experience and I have not found the perfect place, but this lifestyle is a little better for me than Bergen County. I was never the fancy type. I almost bordered out of place there. Thanks for your help, see you on Mount Marcy!!
Ever check out any of the areas in SOUTH SOUTH Jersey, near DE?
Carny's Point, Bridgeton, Pennsville etc. There is definately a lot of rural poverty going on a around there: small dirty looking homes, abandoned areas, broken windows, stores closed mid-day on a weekday, not a lot of work in the immediate area and the few nice cars at the few places of work seem to have a majority of Delaware plates.
Very sad to see, I have only been down there twice and wouldn't like to go back, very depressing.
Ever check out any of the areas in SOUTH SOUTH Jersey, near DE?
Carny's Point, Bridgeton, Pennsville etc. There is definately a lot of rural poverty going on a around there: small dirty looking homes, abandoned areas, broken windows, stores closed mid-day on a weekday, not a lot of work in the immediate area and the few nice cars at the few places of work seem to have a majority of Delaware plates.
Very sad to see, I have only been down there twice and wouldn't like to go back, very depressing.
The difference between this area and the places SteveMorse and I have experienced is that Salem and Cumberland Counties are within reasonable proximity to urban economies, such as Wilmington or Philadelphia. Historically, Salem and Cumberland economies were built upon agricultural entities, more recently, the Vineland/Bridgeton/Millville MSA (which is a sub-entity of the Philadelphia CMSA) this area's economy is based on food processing, principally in poultry production. So, this could be a partial explanation why this part of New Jersey is an 'outlier' relative to the rest of the state. Indeed, if you wanted to approach anything resembling an atmosphere relative to upper NY state or southern New Mexico, this area is probably your best bet, with regards to poverty. But it is still within close proximity to the Washington D.C.-Boston corridor, so any rural poverty here is going to be tame in comparison to the rest of the country. For a lifelong northeasterner, the perception of Cumberland-Salem counties is likely one of poverty, but it does not approach what you might find outside of a rural economy such as Guymon Oklahoma, or Tunica Mississippi.
NJ is always ranked as one of the wealthiest states. You'll find dumps in any state however.
I was not bashing NJ, I was only stating a fact. Englishtown which is in Manalapan Township, its right there.,, same Zipcode and Post office Does have extreme Poverty. This was in 1998. In the Region/New Jersey; Detached Homes, Mostly for Lower-Income Buyers - New York Times
There would be no need for this if there was only wealth.
And yes there are dumps here also, and way worst ones in Alabama where I went for the weekend, but not in my town. Not less than 3 miles from my home as was the case in Manalapan.Englishtown has some back scary roads that I knew to never go down.
There's poverty in the suburbs, but you have to really go out of your way to find it. And the suburbs in New Jersey sprawl further than just about anywhere else. In contrast, if you travel outside of Brentwood Tennessee, and head southwest 30 miles, you wind up in places such as Centerville, Summertown, and Hohenwald, which are representative of the more rural poverty I mentioned prior. Travel 30 miles from Manalapan, depending on the direction, and you will find yourself in Westfield, Hillsborough, Columbus, Bayville, etc, all of which are middle or upper middle class suburbs of NYC or Philly. Sure, there may be a hidden mobile home park or two, but the area is dominated by low density suburb tract lots varying in size from .2 to 1 acre.
Try Traveling 30 miles south of Manalapan, Where does that get you, Camden? Trenton?
Centerville, also has some very nice homes, its not all poverty. It was the hometown of the late , great Minnie Pearl, who was a member of my church.
My daughter's friend lives in Centerville and has a home, and a chalet on her property of 70 acres. She isn't rich, but not poor, middle class.
Hohenwald, the same. Yes, I've been to all these towns and yes there is some poverty, but its not in the same town which if you check Manalapan, the post office is Manalapan/Englishtown 07726. Its not just a few trailers it blocks of these shacks right next to new expensive housing.
Diane G
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