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Have been following with keen interest the goings on around NJT finally moving on Lackawanna cutoff project. However was surprised at how many in Philly/New Jersey are dead set against the project or any other that brings easier access to the more rural parts of either state. On the NJ side those that have moved to the western part of the state often say they did so to get away from congestion, density and the other "problems" of New York City and the more built-up parts of NJ. They don't want more persons moving out there as development would surely follow any expansion of rail service. On the Philly side they are "tired" of what they see as an invasion from (mostly) New York City bringing many social ills to places such as around Scranton and such.
There seems to be a good amount of abandoned RR ROW in NJ that if used properly could take some of pressure off traffic. Thoughts?
It's hard to see Scranton getting worse. But I don't see the cutoff taking any pressure off traffic. Personally I think it will end up being an underutilized waste of money.
I don't know the details of this particular project, but I can't imagine how long of a train ride it would be from the "western part of the state" to NYC. It's almost a 90-minute train ride already from places like Denville and Hopatcong.
While the arguments from the NJ side are somewhat frivolous (look at how dense the area around Netcong is!), and the arguments from the Pennsylvania side are completely ludicrous (Scranton is a source of trouble, not a destination for it), the project is probably not the best use of NJT's funds. There are other, much denser corridors that could really use passenger rail service and don't have it but do have ROWs in place such that reactivating the route would be relatively cheap (for example, the Northern Valley corridor in Bergen County, where there are not one but two basically abandoned rail lines that could be connected to Hoboken -- or even Penn if capacity were expanded -- quite easily). Those should be much higher priority for NJT.
I personally think the PA extension is ridiculous. People from out there will be looking probably at 2 hour train rides at best and I don't see how that's desirable. I mean when I take the train direct into NYC I go from Linden which is only 3-4 stops from NYP and it takes about 40 minutes. I couldn't imagine being further west in NJ let alone PA, I would have no desire to get on a train. I think NJT's best bet is to work with NY on adding tunnels or more tracks through tunnels to Penn Station so more lines can be direct all the time (like Raritan Valley for example). I would love to see more tracks/tunnels because the current system is too small IMO. I think that's much more worth it than the Lackawanna thing. I think that is a waste, and I'm honestly not sure how much those from PA would use it given the time it will take to make it to the city, or Newark if the plan is to have them switch trains at Newark Penn - which means adding a bit more travel time. I've read a bit about it on the PA forum, just as a lurker, and most people on both NJ and PA sides don't seem on board for a few reasons.
I do think that the PA argument that this ties them too much to NYC and NYC area people in a negative way is ridiculous. I don't know much about crime or anything in the Scranton area, but some people tend to blame it on NY/NJ transplants which I think is ridiculous. From what I can tell, that is kind of a depressed area that needs revamping but I'm not sure that is NJ's job, by connecting Scranton to NYC via train on NJT through our state. IMHO Scranton and PA in general is too far from NYC to use that card.
Last edited by JerseyGirl415; 03-07-2014 at 08:13 PM..
I personally think the PA extension is ridiculous. People from out there will be looking probably at 2 hour train rides at best and I don't see how that's desirable. I mean when I take the train direct into NYC I go from Linden which is only 3-4 stops from NYP and it takes about 40 minutes. I couldn't imagine being further west in NJ let alone PA, I would have no desire to get on a train. I think NJT's best bet is to work with NY on adding tunnels or more tracks through tunnels to Penn Station so more lines can be direct all the time (like Raritan Valley for example). I would love to see more tracks/tunnels because the current system is too small IMO. I think that's much more worth it than the Lackawanna thing. I think that is a waste, and I'm honestly not sure how much those from PA would use it given the time it will take to make it to the city, or Newark if the plan is to have them switch trains at Newark Penn - which means adding a bit more travel time. I've read a bit about it on the PA forum, just as a lurker, and most people on both NJ and PA sides don't seem on board for a few reasons.
I do think that the PA argument that this ties them too much to NYC and NYC area people in a negative way is ridiculous. I don't know much about crime or anything in the Scranton area, but some people tend to blame it on NY/NJ transplants which I think is ridiculous. From what I can tell, that is kind of a depressed area that needs revamping but I'm not sure that is NJ's job, by connecting Scranton to NYC via train on NJT through our state. IMHO Scranton and PA in general is too far from NYC to use that card.
Cannot say much about Scranton, but know many in the Poconos are fed up to the back teeth with "New Yorkers" that have invaded the place. Think aside from some demographic issues (many of the recent arrivals seem to be AA or Hispanic/Latino), there are problems stemming from the children/teenagers. Many of those kids are home alone or otherwise unsupervised when not at school because of the hellish commute their parents must make on work days.
Have been following with keen interest the goings on around NJT finally moving on Lackawanna cutoff project. However was surprised at how many in Philly/New Jersey are dead set against the project or any other that brings easier access to the more rural parts of either state. On the NJ side those that have moved to the western part of the state often say they did so to get away from congestion, density and the other "problems" of New York City and the more built-up parts of NJ. They don't want more persons moving out there as development would surely follow any expansion of rail service. On the Philly side they are "tired" of what they see as an invasion from (mostly) New York City bringing many social ills to places such as around Scranton and such.
There seems to be a good amount of abandoned RR ROW in NJ that if used properly could take some of pressure off traffic. Thoughts?
the lackawanna cutoff project would have been successful had it been built 10 years ago. the 'era' of people moving from the city out to rural nw nj and nepa has ended, and many seem to be moving back.
I don't know the details of this particular project, but I can't imagine how long of a train ride it would be from the "western part of the state" to NYC. It's almost a 90-minute train ride already from places like Denville and Hopatcong.
IIRC Scranton to Hoboken back in the day took three and one half hours.
Have been following with keen interest the goings on around NJT finally moving on Lackawanna cutoff project. However was surprised at how many in Philly/New Jersey are dead set against the project or any other that brings easier access to the more rural parts of either state. On the NJ side those that have moved to the western part of the state often say they did so to get away from congestion, density and the other "problems" of New York City and the more built-up parts of NJ. They don't want more persons moving out there as development would surely follow any expansion of rail service. On the Philly side they are "tired" of what they see as an invasion from (mostly) New York City bringing many social ills to places such as around Scranton and such.
There seems to be a good amount of abandoned RR ROW in NJ that if used properly could take some of pressure off traffic. Thoughts?
I personally think the PA extension is ridiculous. People from out there will be looking probably at 2 hour train rides at best and I don't see how that's desirable. I mean when I take the train direct into NYC I go from Linden which is only 3-4 stops from NYP and it takes about 40 minutes. I couldn't imagine being further west in NJ let alone PA, I would have no desire to get on a train. I think NJT's best bet is to work with NY on adding tunnels or more tracks through tunnels to Penn Station so more lines can be direct all the time (like Raritan Valley for example). I would love to see more tracks/tunnels because the current system is too small IMO. I think that's much more worth it than the Lackawanna thing. I think that is a waste, and I'm honestly not sure how much those from PA would use it given the time it will take to make it to the city, or Newark if the plan is to have them switch trains at Newark Penn - which means adding a bit more travel time. I've read a bit about it on the PA forum, just as a lurker, and most people on both NJ and PA sides don't seem on board for a few reasons.
I do think that the PA argument that this ties them too much to NYC and NYC area people in a negative way is ridiculous. I don't know much about crime or anything in the Scranton area, but some people tend to blame it on NY/NJ transplants which I think is ridiculous. From what I can tell, that is kind of a depressed area that needs revamping but I'm not sure that is NJ's job, by connecting Scranton to NYC via train on NJT through our state. IMHO Scranton and PA in general is too far from NYC to use that card.
I work with someone who commutes from the Poconos by bus. She leaves her house at 3:30 a.m. Another guy was living up there but after he had his child, he and his wife decided to move back to Queens because he hardly saw his daughter. But, I know a few others who live in the Poconos and commute to Jersey City or New York.
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