Worst or pooriest sections of trenton (Princeton, National Park: employment, hospital, house)

[fischfan13]

Christina, an absolutely great post.
Unfortunately it will not matter with dessertrat...but the rest of us heard you loudly.

[paullySC]

The further away from trenton you are the happier you will be. They need to level that city and just pretend it never existed.

[BobKovacs]

Originally Posted by DessertRat

What it's like to live somewhere for you will be what your set of personal experiences is like. How would it be negative for you living somewhere if your everyday experience is safe and pleasant? Because you're the type of person who regularly checks statistics and worries about things you never experience?

Sounds like you should consider a move to Trenton instead of Las Vegas, since you don't seem to think the murders, boarded up homes, and people hanging out on the corners make it a "bad" place. I'm sure there's plenty of oppotunities for you down there, and the real estate is a steal........

[DessertRat]

Originally Posted by christina0001

There's been some great responses to dessertrat's post (post #17). My question is: have you ever been to Trenton? Or any city, really?

Sure. And I live in Jersey City now. I'm an avid hiker, but I have to walk where I live most days instead of in the hills/mountains. I've also traveled a lot, sometimes for pleasure, sometimes for work--among other things, I'm a musician, and I've been on the road doing club tours, for example, where we'd be in a location often two weeks (sometimes more). I usually walk 5-6 miles a day (I would like to do more, but I do not usually have the time to do more). Since I live in Jersey City (I have for 13 years now), I've walked all over it and neighboring cities (I have a bit of a "list" fetish, so I do things like walk each street in the cities around here in alphabetical order). I've walked in Trenton (although not a lot, since I've never lived there or too near there), Newark, New York including Harlem, Bed-Stuy, south Bronx, etc., Miami including Liberty City and the old "box town" under the I-95 overpass (I lived in Miami--I went to university there), Cleveland including the Euclid Beach area (I lived in Cleveland--that's where I'm originally from), Los Angeles (I have a lot of relatives there), Detroit (we played there a few different times for a couple weeks at a time), Las Vegas including North Vegas (ditto), San Juan (I worked as a musician on a cruise ship for a year where that was a port of call), Johannesburg including downtown and Soweto (my wife is from that area--a lot of her family lives in Lenasia, which is right across the highway from Soweto), Sao Paolo (I was there with my wife for her work for six weeks), Hong Kong (ditto), Mumbai (my wife has relatives there and elsewhere in India), etc. I've been to many places.

I just can't believe you could have spent too much time in any impoverished, high-crime area, and be able to ask these questions. I have walked just about every street in Trenton, multiple times.

I'd consider walking with you in Trenton if you like. I've got to schedule it, since I have to have time to drive down there first, but I'm willing to do that.

Well, when bars are the only business that thrive in an area,

"Too many corner bars" isn't sufficient to imply that, by the way.

what does that tell you when the poorest areas have a bar on every other street corner? The bars themselves are not really the problem. It's a symptom of the problem - depression, addiction.

Bars are a symptom of depression and addiction?? Have I stumbled onto the teetotallers forum by mistake?

The problem with boarded up buildings is that they are a haven for crime and criminal activity.

The problem with that statement is that you have no justification for it.

No, I don't mean peace-loving, guitar playing folks smoking pot. I mean junkies shooting up, sharing needles...

I'm not agreeing that boarded up buildings are "a haven" for that, but I don't agree that it's criminal activity, either.

and homeless, often mentally ill people living in filth and sub-poverty conditions no human should have to suffer.

Ditto. While that's maybe sad, it's not a crime.

I know this because I have personally spoken to many who live there,

Let's document how many people you've spoken to, where they've lived, etc.

those boarded up homes are not clean inside.

What the hell does that matter? That's unsafe for someone considering living in the area?

Many have cockroaches.

My apartment has cockroaches. I've got them somewhat under control, which means I don't usually see more than one per day now, but in an apartment situation in the New York City area, once you get roaches, it's basically impossible to completely eliminate them. I also lived in West Palm Beach's cracktown (9th Street close to Palm Beach Lakes) in a roach, mouse and termite-infested apartment where I was the only tenant out of 12 who wasn't on public assistance (I lived there before I moved to the New York City area to save money to move).

It might not seem like much to you, but it is terrible for the families with children,

Contributing to why we have roaches now is that the family downstairs who keeps having children to stay on welfare doesn't clean very well and doesn't seem to mind the roaches. I've been talking to them in their doorway while roaches crawl down their walls and they just don't care. I think they have them as pets.

Too many people hanging out on the street 24/7. Maybe I wasn't clear enough here . . . In Trenton, that's not the case. You've got toddlers supervised by children not much older, no adult supervision. You've got clusters of adults hanging out midday, every day, no jobs. They are often drunk or high, shouting profane words and laughing,

None of those things should be crimes, and none of them make an area unsafe.

then shouting profane words and fighting.

That would only make an area unsafe if you're one of the people shouting and fighting. Pretty much anywhere that you live, if you're the type of person who might shout and fight with someone, then it might lead to physical harm to you. However, I doubt that happens very much. Again, I'd be happy to walk around Trenton with you, so we can more accurately report facts of what's going on and what might be unsafe for someone choosing to live there.

The drug trading starts up mid-afternoon. Have I experienced this? Sure I have, I've been approached a few times.

That's a few times. Not a generalization. It also doesn't make an area unsafe.

I see your point that prostitution should be legal, as all parties are consenting...

That's also true of drugs. And yes, all drugs.

but it's not something that should occur on park benches and porches (I've seen that too).

I disagree with you pretty strongly there.

And even if you think it should be legal, it's not.

Right. But that doesn't make an area unsafe for someone.

While it is a crime, it shouldn't be happening.

Couldn't disagree more strongly with that either. Did you know that sodomy is illegal in many places? (check this out: Sodomy law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) Should people not commit sodomy in those places, then, just because it's technically illegal?

Chambersburg has all but shut down, because these groups of people congregating outside at night have the unfortunate habit of jumping people as they go to/from the restaurants.

That would be unsafe if it were happening regularly, sure. But I do not believe that it's happening regularly. I would need evidence of that.

So no, again, it's not necessarily the fact that there's groups of people standing around that is a problem...it's their activities and behaviors.

That's what you need to specify, and not conflate different activities.

Gang activity and violence...have I seen it happen? lol Again, unfortunately I have met with too many people affected by it...

I'm not skeptical that violence, including gang violence happens. I'm skeptical that it's something most people have to worry about, especially if they and their family members are not actually in or trying to join gangs. Additionally, you certainly do not need to be in a city like Trenton to have the possibility of joining a gang. The only place in the US where that would be very difficult is if you live in the boonies and your kids aren't likely to drive to a bigger town nearby.

As for drug activity...you may think it should be legal, but the fact remains, it's not. Committing an illegal act, whether it should be legal or not, doesn't make it right.

Again, I couldn't disagree more strongly. Something isn't wrong just because it's illegal. Promoting that is a good way to lead us to fascism among other things.

And again, I'm not even worrying about people smoking some pot in their homes...I'm worrying about the guy shooting up, sharing his needles, leaving them on the sidewalk, and putting us all at risk for whatever disease he has.

Putting you at risk for disease?? How?

I'm worried about the guy that is paranoid, psychotic, and going to beat me up because of the drugs he's taken.

Have you done drugs much or been around people who have? I have. I've also known drug dealers--a good friend of mine was dealing coke when we were in college, for example. Your worry there is far more paranoid than a typical drug user. You're welcome to it, but when someone wants to know if an area is unsafe to live in, I'm not going to support it. They need facts about what it's like to actually live somewhere and what they're likely to experience.

The use may be consensual, but how the person's behavior is affecting and hurting others is not.

Nonconsensual violence should be illegal. Nonconsensual violence is different than drug use. Do not conflate the two.

And in Trenton, this...and the other things I mentioned above...do affect and hurt the citizens and visitors of Trenton.

You mentioned nothing specific about how it would hurt the citizens and visitors of Trenton, unless they happen to be in a gang there, be a visiting gang "dignitary" (lol), or be the kind of person who would shout at others in the street and get into a fistfight with them. And someone in those categories does not have to move to particular areas of Trenton to put themselves at risk. Their behavior and disposition puts them at risk, even if they happen to move to Palm Beach, or someplace like Bucyrus in Ohio.

[DessertRat]

Originally Posted by BobKovacs

Sounds like you should consider a move to Trenton instead of Las Vegas, since you don't seem to think the murders, boarded up homes, and people hanging out on the corners make it a "bad" place. I'm sure there's plenty of oppotunities for you down there, and the real estate is a steal........

I'm basing where I'm moving to on whether I think the place is bad?

[BobKovacs]

Originally Posted by DessertRat

I'm basing where I'm moving to on whether I think the place is bad?

I'd assume it would factor into the decision in some form, no?

[MamaBee]

I guess it takes all kinds DessertRat...you are welcome to live wherever you want but the rest of us will give people the realistic picture of cities like Trenton when they ask about moving there...especially with children.

[DessertRat]

Since Bob brought it up, by the way, let's look at this from another angle. I'm planning on moving to Vegas at some point in the future (I'm trying to go there with a job first--or with my wife having a job first, so that may end up deciding when I go).

Lets say that I wanted to get advice on what's a "bad neighborhood" in Vegas, and I'm meaning where I'll be safe (and not really meaning something at least slightly racist, as sometimes is the case--and my wife is at least slightly racist, by the way; in her case it's largely a symptom of being raised (although as a minority herself) in South Africa under Apartheid); I think she's getting better about it, but while we're married, it's highly unlikely we'd live in a primarily African-American community, as I have done in the past).

Now, someone might say, "Don't move to the area around N. Las Vegas Blvd and E. Cheyenne", and one of the reasons they give is that statistically, the murder rate is high there. Well, that's fine to know, but what I want to know is whether my wife or I are likely to be murdered there. If the murder rate is high in that area because drug dealers and gang members are killing each other, then my wife and I are not likely to be murdered, because we're not drug dealers or gang members. However, if there's some bizarre epidemic there of random people getting killed regularly--say, from some serial killers who live there who do not have victim preferences (if they had victim preferences--say, blonde, caucasian females around 20-35, then again, my wife and I do not need to worry), and the North Las Vegas Police Department thinks it's cool to have those serial killers running around, then I'd need to exercise more caution, because I am a random person who would be walking around the area.

The same goes for statistics like rapes (and that category is especially complicated because so many different things can count as rape, including consensual sex between, say, a 21 year old and a 15 year old), burglaries (I need to know something about the circumstances, what kinds of places are being robbed, etc.), and so on.

Another example from home: North Jersey, including JC, has a very rate rate of vehicle thefts. But there are preferences for certain types of vehicles (because the person committing the theft needs to make money when they take it to a chop shop or their chop shop connection). So if you've got a rustbucket 1984 Ford, you hardly need to worry about it.

Presumably, people considering a move want to have some idea of what their life in the new location is going to be like for them. As far as that goes, they probably don't care what life might be like for a drug dealer, smack junkie, gang member, violent schizophrenic or hobo in the area--or even for someone who has to regularly deal with those folks, unless that happens to be their job, too. Of course, they might have compassion for the hobos and such, but it's not going to affect most folks' daily experience living somewhere.

[JackedInPrinceton]

Ok fine, Trenton is a great city move there then. Its different for everyone but I like to be able to drink at the bars fri/sat night stay out till 2 in the morning and when I leave I dont want to have to worry about getting shot or robbed. In Trenton that is no such reality... Other areas, Princeton for example I do it every weekend

[JackedInPrinceton]

Presumably, people considering a move want to have some idea of what their life in the new location is going to be like for them. As far as that goes, they probably don't care what life might be like for a drug dealer, smack junkie, gang member, violent schizophrenic or hobo in the area--or even for someone who has to regularly deal with those folks, unless that happens to be their job, too. Of course, they might have compassion for the hobos and such, but it's not going to affect most folks' daily experience living somewhere.

I opened the paper yesterday ... The Trenton Times. And just this weekend there were 5 different robberies on the street. 5 RANDOM people were held at gunpoint at seperate locations/times and were forced to give up their money. Two of them were stabbed after handing it over. So life as a regular person in Trenton is not very safe most times.