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Old 04-20-2014, 02:28 PM
 
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There is a dispute which states are northern and which states are southern, I heard some people say that the south starts at the Potomac River which would split the DC area into 2 regions, others say the south starts at the Delaware River which would have made NJ bordering the south. I'm talking about the states that are part of the South. It can be any definition you use.

Last edited by muppethammer26; 04-20-2014 at 02:36 PM..
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Old 04-20-2014, 02:45 PM
 
Location: NJ
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Someone once told me that Cape May County is below the Mason-Dixon line. I don't really know if that's true though. I always think of "the South" as Virginia and all points south of there.
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Old 04-20-2014, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
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Google is a fabulous tool!

History of the Mason-Dixon Line / Rising Sun, MD
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Old 04-20-2014, 04:07 PM
 
Location: GA
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Originally Posted by veuvegirl View Post
great website. thanks!
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Old 04-20-2014, 04:29 PM
 
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Historically none of the states bordering NJ were southern, though Delaware was a slave state. Maryland was Southern, and forcibly prevented from seceding. Culturally the line is even further south than the Potomac, though it moves north as you move west. Cape May is only "south" in the sense of "South Jersey"; the fact that it's south of an eastern extension of Maryland's northern border doesn't mean much.
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Old 04-20-2014, 04:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
Historically none of the states bordering NJ were southern, though Delaware was a slave state. Maryland was Southern, and forcibly prevented from seceding. Culturally the line is even further south than the Potomac, though it moves north as you move west. Cape May is only "south" in the sense of "South Jersey"; the fact that it's south of an eastern extension of Maryland's northern border doesn't mean much.

At one time NJ was a slave state. History of slavery in New Jersey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
" New Jersey state legislature was the last in the North to abolish slavery, passing a law in 1804 for its gradual abolition"

Interesting Delaware timeline: Delaware Historic Timeline - Delaware State Tourism
1847 Delaware Senate considers an act to abolish slavery. The act is defeated by one vote.
1861 Although a slaveholding state, Delaware rejects invitation to join Confederacy. Peace convention at Dover favors peaceable recognition of Confederacy. Troops from Philadelphia garrison Fort Delaware, which becomes prison camp.
1861-65 More than 12,000 troops from Delaware join Union forces; a small number join the Confederate Army.
1865 Thirteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution abolishes slavery. The Delaware legislature votes against the amendment.
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Old 04-20-2014, 04:50 PM
 
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Map of the Union and Confederate States
Map of the Union & Confederate States.
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Old 04-20-2014, 04:58 PM
 
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There were still a handful of "permanent apprentices" in NJ in 1861 due to the wording of the state's abolition of slavery. NJ did not vote for Lincoln in either 1860 or 1864, and I believe it did not vote for the 13th amendment either. NJ's pro-southern leanings likely had less to do with slavery and more to do with business contacts; much of what Newark produced was sold in the South so the war was in some ways bad for business.

South Jersey, dominated by Quakers, had a long history of progressive attitudes towards race and was home to free black communities very early on in the colony's history. Thus, even though most people consider SJ backwards and "Alabama-lite," back then it was more accepting of African-Americans.

The South can be defined variously, but if you count the states that secceeded, then the Potomac is the most logical boundary. The Mason-Dixon line works as well since Maryland and Delaware were both slave states in 1860, though that seems a bit dated now since Maryland and Delaware are solidly mid-Atlantic, IMO. Actually, looking at the fantastic growth of Northern Virginia, the line might have to be moved down to the Rappahanock.
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Old 04-20-2014, 07:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
Historically none of the states bordering NJ were southern, though Delaware was a slave state. Maryland was Southern, and forcibly prevented from seceding. Culturally the line is even further south than the Potomac, though it moves north as you move west. Cape May is only "south" in the sense of "South Jersey"; the fact that it's south of an eastern extension of Maryland's northern border doesn't mean much.
All of the original 13 colonies were slave states. NJ had slaves until 1846 when it was finally abolished, and even then no one can guarantee it didn't happen illegally in some form until the end of the Civil War.

I get your point about Delaware being a slave state, but when I think about it both DE and Maryland weren't all that Southern considering they didn't secede, for whatever reasons, forcibly or not. The most "southern" states, to me, historical speaking slavery-wise, are from SC down, west to Louisiana. Those states really heavily relied on slave labor.

I was always taught in school as a child that DE and MD were Southern states but as I've gotten older and learned more, and learned more complex history, I've realized that mid-Atlantic best describes those states IMO. Not quite northern, but also not southern. But then it gets confusing because NJ is also considered mid-Atlantic, yet we are northern.
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Old 04-20-2014, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Northville, MI
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The southern culture picks up somewhere in central Virginia, where you suddenly start seeing huge crosses everywhere, like this one.

http://bilnkit.files.wordpress.com/2...bristol-tn.jpg

Never seen such stuff anywhere in the northeast.
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