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Take the best area of Newark (Ironbound) and compare it to downtown JC.
Any million dollar residences?
How many businesses recently left NYC for Newark?
How many parks- and how many of those are clean and not full of drug dealers?
How many bars and restaurants in each?
Average income in 07310/07302: 140k & 94k respectively. Ironbound: 41k.
Oh and how many new real estate projects? I won't even mention that because I feel bad humiliating the Newark crowd.
It's a ridiculous comparison- and I didn't say Jersey City is like Millburn- I said comparing JC to Newark is like comparing Millburn to Newark- meaning it's an apples to oranges comparison.
On the whole, Jersey City is far more diverse, has much lower crime, has a beautiful waterfront, more parks, better proximity to NYC, and is a city with rising property values and salaries. Jersey City is more like the rest of the Gold Coast cities.
The same cannot be said for Newark- which is the same vein of the other dying former industrial cities of the state, like Camden, Paterson, and Trenton.
It would make a lot more sense to compare downtown to downtown, not downtown to an industrial/residential area with a major commercial street. You seem so against apples to oranges comparisons yet you continue to make them yourself. I am not from either JC or Newark and have only been to either a few times. I am rather an objective outside observer who has taken great interest to the development and rebound of our cities in the state of New Jersey.
However, before I respond to your comments I have a few questions out of personal interest that I hope you can answer Scarlet. I have looked online but have been unable to find any info and am hoping you can help me because you seem very familiar with JC. When was the last major office project finished? Is there any planned office buildings that look to be possibly going forward in the next few years (~5)? What major corporations are headquartered in JC? Do you happen to know how many people work downtown/commute to the city to work? Of the firms that have moved across the river from NYC, how many of these moved "front office" staff? All the progress the city is making is great but I am a little concerned it is missing this key component of any major cities economy, a major daytime workforce.
Paterson is the North Jersey version of Camden and Trenton is the Central Jersey version of Paterson. Newark is head and shoulders above all these cities in terms of economic development and safety
As Nexus pointed out earlier, being located close to manhattan should be considered a plus for JC not necessarily a negative to Newark. Newark does have a lot going for it that has been pointed out a number of times here so I'm not going to take the time to repeat all that has been said. I don't think that Newark needs to wait until JC runs out of room to begin rapidly developing, parts of Hoboken haven't been developed yet JC is still making impressive residential gains. What is slightly concerning to me is JC is becoming a bedroom city for Manhattan without any significant commercial development. Newark is beginning to gather momentum and as I have said before should begin to grow by leaps and bounds over the next few years. Once developers see the incredible success the few pioneers have with their early projects they will quickly flock to the city imo.
Newark does not necessarily need to poach NY companies and frankly very few NY centric companies will move their workforce that far away, which is why you see so many migrating towards (or at least threatening to) Brooklyn and JC. Newark will gain new corporations from the suburbs much like it recently saw with Panasonic. New bars and restaurants are popping up with increasing pace as workers are realizing they will not be shot if they walk outside and new residents are beginning to move in. Please do mention the development that has happened in Newark as it would only be a fair comparison while talking about JC's recent development. I'm sure I'll forget a few but Rutgers and NJIT have both expanded, Panasonic built themselves a nice new tower. Prudential is currently building themselves a new World headquarters (maybe a second one in a few years), the Hanes building is being renovated with residences and new retail space, including a whole foods. The teachers village is nearly complete, and the second phase of that development I mentioned a few post back could result in 15 million sq feet of development. The Shaq tower will hopefully be rising soon as there has been some interior prep work for a late spring start of significant construction. A number of older office building have recently undergone major renovations and I would expect the gateway tower (2?) to once Prudential moves out. Two (+?) hotels have opened in the past few years.
Yes JC does have more development currently under way but considering where Newark was only a few short years ago the turn around is frankly amazing.
It would make a lot more sense to compare downtown to downtown, not downtown to an industrial/residential area with a major commercial street. You seem so against apples to oranges comparisons yet you continue to make them yourself. I am not from either JC or Newark and have only been to either a few times. I am rather an objective outside observer who has taken great interest to the development and rebound of our cities in the state of New Jersey.
However, before I respond to your comments I have a few questions out of personal interest that I hope you can answer Scarlet. I have looked online but have been unable to find any info and am hoping you can help me because you seem very familiar with JC. When was the last major office project finished? Is there any planned office buildings that look to be possibly going forward in the next few years (~5)? What major corporations are headquartered in JC? Do you happen to know how many people work downtown/commute to the city to work? Of the firms that have moved across the river from NYC, how many of these moved "front office" staff? All the progress the city is making is great but I am a little concerned it is missing this key component of any major cities economy, a major daytime workforce.
Paterson is the North Jersey version of Camden and Trenton is the Central Jersey version of Paterson. Newark is head and shoulders above all these cities in terms of economic development and safety
As Nexus pointed out earlier, being located close to manhattan should be considered a plus for JC not necessarily a negative to Newark. Newark does have a lot going for it that has been pointed out a number of times here so I'm not going to take the time to repeat all that has been said. I don't think that Newark needs to wait until JC runs out of room to begin rapidly developing, parts of Hoboken haven't been developed yet JC is still making impressive residential gains. What is slightly concerning to me is JC is becoming a bedroom city for Manhattan without any significant commercial development. Newark is beginning to gather momentum and as I have said before should begin to grow by leaps and bounds over the next few years. Once developers see the incredible success the few pioneers have with their early projects they will quickly flock to the city imo.
Newark does not necessarily need to poach NY companies and frankly very few NY centric companies will move their workforce that far away, which is why you see so many migrating towards (or at least threatening to) Brooklyn and JC. Newark will gain new corporations from the suburbs much like it recently saw with Panasonic. New bars and restaurants are popping up with increasing pace as workers are realizing they will not be shot if they walk outside and new residents are beginning to move in. Please do mention the development that has happened in Newark as it would only be a fair comparison while talking about JC's recent development. I'm sure I'll forget a few but Rutgers and NJIT have both expanded, Panasonic built themselves a nice new tower. Prudential is currently building themselves a new World headquarters (maybe a second one in a few years), the Hanes building is being renovated with residences and new retail space, including a whole foods. The teachers village is nearly complete, and the second phase of that development I mentioned a few post back could result in 15 million sq feet of development. The Shaq tower will hopefully be rising soon as there has been some interior prep work for a late spring start of significant construction. A number of older office building have recently undergone major renovations and I would expect the gateway tower (2?) to once Prudential moves out. Two (+?) hotels have opened in the past few years.
Yes JC does have more development currently under way but considering where Newark was only a few short years ago the turn around is frankly amazing.
I think JC has better prospects than Newark due to JC's better leadership. JC has a new Mayor (Fulop) with a great resume. Newark is poised to elect a new Mayor that will likely put Newark on a path of decline again and deep corruption. I also think that the number of college educated people filling all the new residential deliveries coming online in Jersey City will certainly be a compelling consideration for a business considering locating to office space in Jersey City. There will be a highly educated and skilled workforce living in downtown and that is an attractive consideration for office users (access to a skilled labor pool).
Jersey City's biggest weakness IMO (as a resident) is the lack of viable schools. The public schools are terrible. JC will need to fix that in some way (charters schools?).
Jersey City's biggest weakness IMO (as a resident) is the lack of viable schools. The public schools are terrible. JC will need to fix that in some way (charters schools?).
JC is primarily a work hub, majority of the residents are not well off. Even those in Hoboken and surroundings that are well off aren't enough to compensate for many of the area that lives in broken down apts and many poor areas that are borderline from being ghettos in the outskirts of JC.
You can't have good schools without enough resident property taxes to fund it. The area also has low sales taxes which may help bring over retail sales but generally it means the area is still impoverished.
I think JC has better prospects than Newark due to JC's better leadership. JC has a new Mayor (Fulop) with a great resume. Newark is poised to elect a new Mayor that will likely put Newark on a path of decline again and deep corruption. I also think that the number of college educated people filling all the new residential deliveries coming online in Jersey City will certainly be a compelling consideration for a business considering locating to office space in Jersey City. There will be a highly educated and skilled workforce living in downtown and that is an attractive consideration for office users (access to a skilled labor pool).
Jersey City's biggest weakness IMO (as a resident) is the lack of viable schools. The public schools are terrible. JC will need to fix that in some way (charters schools?).
I, at no time, have ever said JC was not in better shape than Newark. Fulop has, is and will continue to push the further development of the city and I'm impressed by his ability to get things done. I hope he does not jump ship in two (3?) years for the Governor's mansion as JC will be hard pressed to replace him. I do however point out that Newark has been making impressive gains as well over the past decades, but is still far behind in the development timetable than JC is.
The current Newark election is an absolute farce. I really hope Jeffries pulls out a miracle but it does not look likely. He is very pro-development and pro business and doesn't have as questionable a record of corruption as Baraka. It does seem however that Newark has reached a tipping point of development where the Mayor would have to go significantly out his his way to stop current and future development projects. The city has been deeply corrupt for ever, even when Brooker was mayor, even though (I really hope) he didn't participate directly in it.
I, at no time, have ever said JC was not in better shape than Newark. Fulop has, is and will continue to push the further development of the city and I'm impressed by his ability to get things done. I hope he does not jump ship in two (3?) years for the Governor's mansion as JC will be hard pressed to replace him. I do however point out that Newark has been making impressive gains as well over the past decades, but is still far behind in the development timetable than JC is.
The current Newark election is an absolute farce. I really hope Jeffries pulls out a miracle but it does not look likely. He is very pro-development and pro business and doesn't have as questionable a record of corruption as Baraka. It does seem however that Newark has reached a tipping point of development where the Mayor would have to go significantly out his his way to stop current and future development projects. The city has been deeply corrupt for ever, even when Brooker was mayor, even though (I really hope) he didn't participate directly in it.
I think Fulop will jump ship unfortunately to run for Governor. Newark has made progress, but it is about to go down the path to payoffs, dirty dealing and just plain incompetence. Capital tends to avoid those characteristics. Downtown JC is going to have a huge influx of new residents with the number of new towers to be delivered over the next two years. Crazy...I moved there two years ago and the place has become so much more interesting in just that short time.
Once the Calatrava hub opens (2015) and Fulton Station opens (scheduled for June '14) JC (downtown) will be among the best places to live because lower Manhattan is going to be "the happening" location. I can be there in one stop from Exchange and most of the other places I like to access on the way home or one weekends are off the E train (23rd, 14th, W4th, Spring, Canal).
I think JC has better prospects than Newark due to JC's better leadership. JC has a new Mayor (Fulop) with a great resume. Newark is poised to elect a new Mayor that will likely put Newark on a path of decline again and deep corruption. I also think that the number of college educated people filling all the new residential deliveries coming online in Jersey City will certainly be a compelling consideration for a business considering locating to office space in Jersey City. There will be a highly educated and skilled workforce living in downtown and that is an attractive consideration for office users (access to a skilled labor pool).
Jersey City's biggest weakness IMO (as a resident) is the lack of viable schools. The public schools are terrible. JC will need to fix that in some way (charters schools?).
This bolded sentence may be true but there are a few reasons why I suspect it won't go back to being pre-Booker Newark. Of course, I respect your opinion but I'm not so sure I agree. The demographics of Newark have been shifting for some time now. It started before Booker was elected and it is still continuing today. The old guard may still have a slight edge but they won't hold it for too much longer. They don't have nearly as much power as they used to. I see this election as the dying breath of the older generation of Newark politicians. This is the last time they could possibly field Ras Baraka as a viable candidate.
With all the projects going on in downtown, I just don't see the revitalization slowing down for a few reasons. First of all, the city council approves all the major development projects that get built downtown. This is the same council that Ras Baraka sits on. The same council that publicly condemns these projects is the one that approves them to be built. I don't see Baraka stopping this trend if he is elected because he knows Newark needs all the jobs and money it can get. He'll take anything to get out from under the state's thumb. And the poetic justice of that is the people who are moving into these new residential developments do not support Baraka. He is actually fueling a political shift away from his support base.
Second, I think developers and lenders don't really care who is running the city as long as they think they can make a profit off of Newark. For all the bad press it gets, not to mention its horrible reputation, people are already moving back to Newark as is. The residential projects that have opened downtown have had no trouble finding tenants. More people means greater demand for goods and services. This creates a snowball effect. The SoMa project has already been mentioned in this thread. That is the direction developers are pushing the city in.
Panasonic and Audible.com have already moved their headquarters to the city. PSE&G was already there. Prudential is expanding. Newark has the airport, and the seaport, and the northeast corridor, and the highways, and a large university infrastructure. The economics of the situation make it inevitable that Newark will see much more investment in the future. The real estate potential is too great to just leave Newark as is.
Last edited by montycench; 05-06-2014 at 01:10 PM..
This bolded sentence may be true but there are a few reasons why I suspect it won't go back to being pre-Booker Newark. Of course, I respect your opinion but I'm not so sure I agree. The demographics of Newark have been shifting for some time now. It started before Booker was elected and it is still continuing today. The old guard may still have a slight edge but they won't hold it for too much longer. They don't have nearly as much power as they used to. I see this election as the dying breath of the older generation of Newark politicians. This is the last time they could possibly field Ras Baraka as a viable candidate.
With all the projects going on in downtown, I just don't see the revitalization slowing down for a few reasons. First of all, the city council approves all the major development projects that get built downtown. This is the same council that Ras Baraka sits on. The same council that publicly condemns these projects is the one that approves them to be built. I don't see Baraka stopping this trend if he is elected because he knows Newark needs all the jobs and money it can get. He'll take anything to get out from under the state's thumb. And the poetic justice of that is the people who are moving into these new residential developments do not support Baraka. He is actually fueling a political shift away from his support base.
Second, I think developers and lenders don't really care who is running the city as long as they think they can make a profit off of Newark. For all the bad press it gets, not to mention its horrible reputation, people are already moving back to Newark as is. The residential projects that have opened downtown have had no trouble finding tenants. More people means greater demand for goods and services. This creates a snowball effect. The SoMa project has already been mentioned in this thread. That is the direction developers are pushing the city in.
Panasonic and Audible.com have already moved their headquarters to the city. PSE&G was already there. Prudential is expanding. Newark has the airport, and the seaport, and the northeast corridor, and the highways, and a large university infrastructure. The economics of the situation make it inevitable that Newark will see much more investment in the future. The real estate potential is too great to just leave Newark as is.
The developers don't care, the lenders (construction loans) may not care as much because they're in for a short period (the construction period before permanent financing is put in-place). However, the equity cares. Most developers, put very little of their own money into their developments (about 5% of the equity). The rest of the equity typically comes from investment managers. The equity is exposed and has to stay in the deal longer because of "broker-dealer" issues if they flip out quickly. We will see how it plays out, but my sense is that this Mayoral election could be a bad step for Newark.
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