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Old 05-06-2014, 11:27 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,542 posts, read 17,387,606 times
Reputation: 3677

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
No one should protest at all. Politics aside, she is a qualified speaker and it would have been good for the students to hear from her, IMO. They hear so much from the left at Rutgers, why not diversify, as liberals claim to love to do? Protesting this type of thing is immature. You don't have to like the speaker or what she says or does, but you also don't have to protest her until she decides that the atmosphere is not welcoming enough for her. She obviously felt that enough students vocalized their lack of support for her and she decided to decline. And I don't blame her. The protesters need to grow up. This is actually a decent life lesson for these graduates: are you going to try to censor or stop everyone you don't like in life? When someone you don't like wants to share their opinion, one that you don't agree with, are you going to protest it dramatically until they back down and disappear? Come on. Hearing the thoughts and opinions of others can never be a bad thing.

Obama's drone strikes have killed hundreds, maybe thousands, no one really knows for sure, of civilians in Pakistan (and let me say, I actually generally support the use of drones, despite civilian casualties so this isn't necessarily a criticism of Obama, but it is a fact). Yet if they asked him to speak, everyone would love it. There would be no protests and no anti-war talk or anything like that… this is the problem. You barely hear a peep from college campuses in general about drone strikes or what Obama has done. Yet the War on Terror and the Bush admin's decisions are crucified now 10 or so years later. They should at least be consistent. Every politician has made bad/controversial decisions, especially ones at the national level who need to deal with terrorism and wars. No one is free from that, so let's not act like they are, Rutgers students and faculty. I'm disgusted with the behaviors of those people who actually had the nerve to complain. It is seriously immature and shows just how left of center universities are. So much for that good old liberal diversity and multiculturalism and whatever else they tout.
Why shouldn't anyone protest? I don't disagree that she's qualified. But people have every right in America to disagree with what she was involved in.

They hear so much from the left? Where, exactly, do you gather that?

It's immature to protest someone who helped take our country to war based on false pretenses? Ok.

Did you read the article? 50 people staged a protest. If that's enough to scare her away, then maybe she wouldn't be such an interesting speaker.

I think you've totally missed the details here. People are protesting her because they dislike her or because they dislilke her politics. I'm not one of them, but there are plenty of people who quite passionately dislike how she was involved in taking our country to war. And don't play the "everyone loves Obama card" and pretend like no one on the left is vocal about his drone use.
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Old 05-06-2014, 11:34 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,542 posts, read 17,387,606 times
Reputation: 3677
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessgeek View Post
Maybe the valedictorian and other student speakers could just have used their free speech rights to mention to the graduates at the commencement that they and many other students strongly disagree with Rice about her support of and involvement in the Bush/Cheney Iraq war policies about a decade ago, but support her right to speak in the spirit of the First Amendment.

In other words, counter it with your own right to free speech rather than censor it. That would make more sense IMO and truly have an impact. I think it would even be respected by those that disagree and would truly respect the free marketplace of ideas. FWIW, I opposed the Iraq War and voted against Bush both times. Just do not believe in opposing free speech rights, though.
I'm sorry, but who is infringing on Rice's free speech rights? I love it when people incorrectly use references to free speech. Free Speech doesn't guarantee any of us the ability to speak at a Commencement Ceremony for multiple thousands of dollars. Rice can speak freely anytime she wants, and is often given a broad platform to do so. And again - no one is censoring Rice's speech.
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Old 05-06-2014, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Patterson Park, Baltimore
934 posts, read 719,686 times
Reputation: 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
The hysterical nature of this reply indicates profound immaturity. Nothing on a discussion forum should make anyone "incredibly sad". Pipe down and limit your posting to rational discussion. A groundbreaking scientist should know better. In fact, so should a groundbreaking landscaper.
Lol, nothing about my post was irrational, but you can choose to interpret it that way if you want. I get it. Not everyone likes being called out on their nonsense.

If you aren't saddened by someone who gets annoyed by people with dreams, I don't know what to say to you. It's not an irrational response; it's a human response. I simply choose optimism over pessimism. That's all. In fact, what is irrational is to react negatively to someone who likes to hope that they will be able to have a positive impact on the world.

Advocating for rational discussion and then telling someone to "pipe down" (not exactly a calm or rational comment) in the same sentence seems a little hypocritical, don't you think?
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Old 05-06-2014, 11:41 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,542 posts, read 17,387,606 times
Reputation: 3677
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
I didn't dump on Obama for a paragraph, and I actually said that I support drones and I don't criticize him for what he has done. What I am saying is that some people (especially people at institutions like Rutgers and many other college campuses) will go on about one side of the political spectrum and the things they have done, but ignore the other. If you're going to rag on Bush/Rice for what they've done, you cannot ignore what drones have done as per Obama's orders - yet Obama is hailed on campuses across the country. I'd know, I am a student at a liberal arts NYC school. I'm not stupid, I know and see first hand what goes on and I can understand what it's like to be preached to about one side of politics and not the other. You obviously completely missed my point.

It's funny you think me sharing my opinion disagreeing with the protests is me being riled up. I'm simply disagreeing, this is no skin off my back. I'm allowed to have an opinion. The fact that it goes against your own, or the protestors', doesn't mean I'm riled up. You think I'm condescending? Oh well. As I said, I'm a student. I see how many students are. They have a lot of learning to do, and they are often arrogant in their beliefs and entitled. I have no problem with anyone disliking Rice or her politics but to protest her speaking? Grow up. People need to realize that no one side in politics is made up of the bad guys. They're on both and all sides. This is something many college students and adults everywhere, who identify with both parties, need to learn before they open their mouths and spew ignorance and stupidity. Find me one president or member of his cabinet who has not done questionable or terrible things (in hindsight of course because that is when we always realize things may have been a mistake), during times of war especially because we tend to act rashly, out of fear - like the post-9/11 years, during the course of the presidency. Since that is a nearly impossible task, are Rutgers students going to protest everyone: president, cabinet member? Of course not…

Also, you took my "politics aside" way out of context. I was saying that regardless of her political beliefs ("politics aside"), Rice is qualified to speak at Rutgers and would be a good choice.
just skip to 4:10 and watch from that point forward. if you want to chalk it up to acting rashly and out of fear, fine. but then don't tell people that and then also act like you're the grown up and everyone else needs to grow up.

Bullet Points Over Benghazi - The Daily Show - Video Clip | Comedy Central
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Old 05-06-2014, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Patterson Park, Baltimore
934 posts, read 719,686 times
Reputation: 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
I'm sorry, but who is infringing on Rice's free speech rights? I love it when people incorrectly use references to free speech. Free Speech doesn't guarantee any of us the ability to speak at a Commencement Ceremony for multiple thousands of dollars. Rice can speak freely anytime she wants, and is often given a broad platform to do so. And again - no one is censoring Rice's speech.
Couldn't agree more. This is the same nonsense that people cried about when the Duck Dynasty guy got suspended.

There is a relevant xkcd comic for this:
xkcd: Free Speech
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Old 05-06-2014, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Sneads Ferry NC/Randolph NJ/Cape Coral FL
12,840 posts, read 23,634,164 times
Reputation: 10539
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
I'm sorry, but who is infringing on Rice's free speech rights? I love it when people incorrectly use references to free speech. Free Speech doesn't guarantee any of us the ability to speak at a Commencement Ceremony for multiple thousands of dollars. Rice can speak freely anytime she wants, and is often given a broad platform to do so. And again - no one is censoring Rice's speech.
Condi imo gracefully backed out. She didn't want the controversy to over shadow the commencement.
You are correct bradykp, her free speech wasn't infringed on nor do I think she was afraid.
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Old 05-06-2014, 11:49 AM
 
456 posts, read 612,221 times
Reputation: 326
scratch that. May she rot in hell.
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Old 05-06-2014, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Chicago
3,395 posts, read 3,471,973 times
Reputation: 7768
Quote:
Originally Posted by GiantRutgersfan View Post
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/condol...140600902.html

This is embarrassing for Rutgers. Show some respect, even if you disagree politically.
Disagree politically? This was a woman who helped send the US to war on a false pretext, a war that cost thousands of American lives and many, many more Iraqi lives. She ought to be in prison, not making commencement speeches.
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Old 05-06-2014, 12:22 PM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,542 posts, read 17,387,606 times
Reputation: 3677
Quote:
Originally Posted by designer_genes View Post
Couldn't agree more. This is the same nonsense that people cried about when the Duck Dynasty guy got suspended.

There is a relevant xkcd comic for this:
xkcd: Free Speech
i love the hidden message in that xkcd image. perfect!
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Old 05-06-2014, 12:24 PM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,542 posts, read 17,387,606 times
Reputation: 3677
Quote:
Originally Posted by njkate View Post
Condi imo gracefully backed out. She didn't want the controversy to over shadow the commencement.
You are correct bradykp, her free speech wasn't infringed on nor do I think she was afraid.
I don't know what I think about her backing out. Maybe it's different on campus, but as i followed the story, it's been a small group that's protested her. I didn't get the conclusion that her speaking was going to overshadow the commencement. Maybe she was right to back out. I dunno. I would have rathered seen her speak, see how people received her, and then decide if it was worth it. My college had some good and some horrible commencement speakers. Sometimes on campus people expressed their displeasure with a selection. This really didn't seem like a big controversy to me.
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