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CA has a lot more people and is a bigger state. Not comparable.
It's comparable, it looks at percentage of the population, not raw numbers. That's how we make things comparable between the states, percentage of state population.
Some general comments after reading this whole thread...
1.) South Jersey is not PA-centric, it's Philly-centric. Two very different things. We have no desire to be part of PA. Now a state of Philadelphia comprising the metro area is a cool concept I could get behind.
2.) Philadelphia contributes more to PA then it gets back. So does NYC compared to Upstate NY. It's a fact no matter how much you don't want to believe it. Look it up. There's way more to a budget than the percentage of welfare recipients living in the city vs the rural areas.
3.) To the person who thinks NJ isn't one of the best-educated... that is just dumb going off common sense. The state sits at the heart of the wealthy northeast next to 2 of the top 5 largest cities (aka economic powerhouses which require intelligent people to keep chugging along), along with having tons of highly-skilled jobs in-state in science/engineering/pharma. You don't need to see a ranking to realize that. I remember reading one time that there are more scientists and engineers per capita in NJ than any other state, won't bother looking for a source right now.
4.) With a more centralized administration, you get better large-scale planning and less myopic thinking. Right now every town is competing with the next town over to get the latest Walgreens. This drives up costs both for the local taxpayer in the short term and in maintaining infrastructure over the long run, as well as possible environmental/congestion/health issues that result from uninspiring and unplanned sprawl growth that I am not smart enough to try to articulate but for which there are many sources posted online and on this general forum. When all the funding is coming from the same pot, you dont have to worry about that and can make smarter decisions about how to grow your region as a whole and benefit the most people in the process. It's a case of optimization.
5.) Becoming part of a larger city would cause the residents of the former suburban municipalities to start caring about the big city, hence making them better in the process. It's stupid for people in the leafy suburbs to say Newark sucks and then take no active part in making it better.
6.) North Jersey needs a big city. Whether you like it or not, the NY media doesn't let you identify with them. It's stupid and makes no sense compared to any other city's suburbs (MD and VA to DC; DE and NJ to Philly; hell even Indiana to Chicago) but that's just the way it is. North Jersey needs its own skylines (Newark and JC are actually decent already), sports teams, media outlets, downtown Newark-centric public transit, and yes, more impressive demographics and geography. There's no reason Newark or JC shouldn't be the northeast's 5th city before Baltimore. A 24 sq mi city with <300k people is a joke, get bigger.
7.) Delaware's a joke, just stop talking about it.
Just found this diagram I made a long time ago for some other thread that was probably about this same exact topic. This is what it seems like the municipal borders should be based on the urban built pattern. Keep in mind I know absolutely nothing about North Jersey so don't judge too harshly:
And this is another diagram that I made for some other thread, presumably also about this exact topic, about how we could "grow" the state, while simultaneously splitting it. Let's call them Philadelphia and Gotham:
I'm pretty sure I made these over 2 years ago. Why are we still having the same conversations, just search through the forum for the old ones.
I think its pretty even between both. Radio & TV considered part of the Philly market, but they get New York stations too. But then they're considered part of the NYC metro area.
Some general comments after reading this whole thread...
1.) South Jersey is not PA-centric, it's Philly-centric. Two very different things. We have no desire to be part of PA. Now a state of Philadelphia comprising the metro area is a cool concept I could get behind.
2.) Philadelphia contributes more to PA then it gets back. So does NYC compared to Upstate NY. It's a fact no matter how much you don't want to believe it. Look it up. There's way more to a budget than the percentage of welfare recipients living in the city vs the rural areas.
3.) To the person who thinks NJ isn't one of the best-educated... that is just dumb going off common sense. The state sits at the heart of the wealthy northeast next to 2 of the top 5 largest cities (aka economic powerhouses which require intelligent people to keep chugging along), along with having tons of highly-skilled jobs in-state in science/engineering/pharma. You don't need to see a ranking to realize that. I remember reading one time that there are more scientists and engineers per capita in NJ than any other state, won't bother looking for a source right now.
4.) With a more centralized administration, you get better large-scale planning and less myopic thinking. Right now every town is competing with the next town over to get the latest Walgreens. This drives up costs both for the local taxpayer in the short term and in maintaining infrastructure over the long run, as well as possible environmental/congestion/health issues that result from uninspiring and unplanned sprawl growth that I am not smart enough to try to articulate but for which there are many sources posted online and on this general forum. When all the funding is coming from the same pot, you dont have to worry about that and can make smarter decisions about how to grow your region as a whole and benefit the most people in the process. It's a case of optimization.
5.) Becoming part of a larger city would cause the residents of the former suburban municipalities to start caring about the big city, hence making them better in the process. It's stupid for people in the leafy suburbs to say Newark sucks and then take no active part in making it better.
6.) North Jersey needs a big city. Whether you like it or not, the NY media doesn't let you identify with them. It's stupid and makes no sense compared to any other city's suburbs (MD and VA to DC; DE and NJ to Philly; hell even Indiana to Chicago) but that's just the way it is. North Jersey needs its own skylines (Newark and JC are actually decent already), sports teams, media outlets, downtown Newark-centric public transit, and yes, more impressive demographics and geography. There's no reason Newark or JC shouldn't be the northeast's 5th city before Baltimore. A 24 sq mi city with <300k people is a joke, get bigger.
7.) Delaware's a joke, just stop talking about it.
I'll add #8 to this list...Freshflakes757 has a SERIOUS problem with New Jersey and was done wrong by the state somehow. Everybody's got an opinion. I actually like New Jersey and work in the state. Trying to move from PA to NJ in the next 1-2 years. Personal reasons plus work being in NJ are the things driving me to want to leave PA. 10 years there and I've had enough.
And this is another diagram that I made for some other thread, presumably also about this exact topic, about how we could "grow" the state, while simultaneously splitting it. Let's call them Philadelphia and Gotham:
I would merge Philadelphia and Gotham and annex the rest of Delaware as well as New York State south of the 42nd parallel and more Eastern PA counties. I would still call the state New Jersey.
I would merge Philadelphia and Gotham and annex the rest of Delaware as well as New York State south of the 42nd parallel and more Eastern PA counties. I would still call the state New Jersey.
As long we we still get to call it New Jersey, you can annex whatever you want muppet.
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