Does house ever trump location? - Summit (Newark, Union: fit in, low crime)

[ksa822]

Cross-posting from the generic RE forum:

We are first time homebuyers looking in Summit, NJ. Our budget is modest by Summit standards - our max is 775k. We saw a home that is in a great school district (though all of Summit schools are good), has the space we need, and was gutted and renovated this year. It's an old house that a builder took down to the studs and redid. Anyway, the main drawback to the house is the street it's on. I know, location trumps everything but this is where we are stuck. The location itself is quite good - walking distance to schools, some restaurants, and the park (we have two small children). But the street is a hodgepodge of multifamily homes and, quite frankly, some ugly looking houses that have zero curb appeal. This house, because it's been renovated and "new" construction is virtually impossible to come by in this town at this price, is priced quite high given the comps on the street. We trust our agent and she has urged us to consider that overall the location is good, the street will continue to change, and that given our price point and our space needs, if we can get the builder to come down this house would be a good choice for us. We did make an initial offer that was low, though not a lowball by any stretch, and he came down a bit, but not much to really make a difference.

Anyway, we know we are going into the busy season for selling, which we feel can be both an advantage (more inventory) and disadvantage (more competition, bidding wars) and we are just unsure how to proceed with this house. It has been on the market for 2 months now with no sign of dropping the price overall.


This is a long way of asking: at what point, do you really consider how well the house suits your family over the street it's on? This is not by any stretch a bad street. It's safe and quiet and probably will change somewhat over time in terms of more single family homes going in there. But being as this house is really at the top of what we want to spend, it's just hard to know if we're better off waiting to see what else is out there, and risk taking a smaller house that might not suit our needs as well but will be on a "better" street. Anyone with knowledge of the Summit market with some insight?

[macrodome2]

Well you already know you couldn't afford the same house on a better street. How long do you intend to stay? How will you feel about the house and location in 5 years? Do you think you'll still enjoy it? Could you see yourself staying there for a number of years?

I ask the questions because I too purchased a house with an undesirable element (I'm close to 287) but we've enjoyed the house for 25 years and it really wasn't an issue for us. We're considering putting the house on the market in the next year, so if we do, we'll see how bad it affects resale value.

[ksa822]

Thanks, macrodome2. We are committed to being in a house for the next 5-7 years, and this house we could actually stay in longer if we wanted/needed to, given the space. Our oldest will start kindergarten next year and the elementary school she'll eventually go to is basically in our backyard. So for those 5 years, it would be great. Then she has a younger brother to follow.

The walkability of this house to a few things (pizza, cleaners, bagels, school, etc.) is an appeal for us, especially with two small kids who otherwise have to be schlepped around in the car. I think that is something that we will always have with this house and that's appealing. And you're right, we know that we can't afford the same house on a better street. Maybe that's what this is about - coming to terms with that.

[nnjguy]

I've got a pretty good guess as to the neighborhood that you're referring to.

While neighborhoods can change over time, I wouldn't count on it. Summit has boomed tremendously over the past 20 years but there are still certain neighborhoods that lag well behind the rest of Summit. Only buy the house if you're comfortable with the neighborhood as it is right now. If the neighborhood improves, that's just a bonus. This is really just a matter of personal preference. In any case, be sure to drive a hard bargain with the seller. No matter how big or nicely renovated it is, there is somewhat of a ceiling on how much a house can be worth relative to neighboring houses.

[King of the South]

here are a few questions:

1) is it a busy street as in a thoroughfare? Hope it's not the street leading up to Overlook, right??

2) Are there professionals with or without kids in the houses or illegal immigrants? and when you say multi-family housing, do you mean 2-3 family houses or =>6 family apts? I think it's more important who is living on the street vs. whether they are in multi-families.

3) does it have to be Summit? Do you need the direct midtown train or can you go down one flight of stairs and up another to switch at Newark Penn station like I?


Summit is a great, old beautiful town that offers ex-New Yorkers many of the conveniences of urban living but with good public schools and reasonably low crime. So our kids get what they need and moms/dads can retain some vestiges of cosmopolitan life. For all this talk of people leaving NJ to get away from high taxes, parents are escaping from Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Hoboken to raise the kids in the top NJ suburbs. The rich are getting richer. Maybe it's more relevant to say the upper middle class is getting richer. Summit and towns like it will benefit in the future.

But as the other poster noted, don't expect a block filled with multifamily apts. to suddenly turn into a block with single family homes. It's a landlord's market and there's money to be made for the owners keeping their properties as is. I just think that there will be people used to NYC who will think the block quaint by their standards and won't mind buying a nice single family home from you someday in the future.

We looked at Summit a while back but opted for Westfield. You can buy slightly more house for the money (only slightly) and you get to say that you that you do not pay the highest property taxes in Union County. (only second highest!)

You and your realtor know if the house has been on the market too long without offers at the current price and if the seller will reduce at the end of the month or if the seller will wait it out in Spring. Your realtor will hopefully give you honest advice about whether bidding wars are coming in March.

You know what, as much as I'd encourage you to look in Westfield for reasons expressed in other posts, I just reread your original post. It sounds like you really want the house. Kids being able to walk to school is great by the way. Go for it! Good luck!

[ksa822]

[quote=King of the South;38364140]here are a few questions:

1) is it a busy street as in a thoroughfare? Hope it's not the street leading up to Overlook, right?? Nope, it's on a quiet street off of Morris Ave. It's not really even a "drive through" street. It's actually on the other side of town from Overlook. We live near Overlook now, in a single-family rental, and I think I know the street you're talking about.

2) Are there professionals with or without kids in the houses or illegal immigrants? and when you say multi-family housing, do you mean 2-3 family houses or =>6 family apts? I think it's more important who is living on the street vs. whether they are in multi-families. Very good point. At the start of the street, there are some family apts., from what I can tell, but I see a lot of children's stuff around. Bikes, strollers, etc. The street curves (the house is almost at that curve) and around the curve it is all single family homes. We actually trick or treated there in the fall, before this house came on the market, and I was struck by how many families there were there.

3) does it have to be Summit? Do you need the direct midtown train or can you go down one flight of stairs and up another to switch at Newark Penn station like I? You know, there are other towns we like but in terms of commute and schools (and now we've lived here for a year and a half too so we've established some friendships here), Summit is really it. My husband works on the East Side and he already doesn't love his commute but at least knows what he's getting into with the commute from Summit.


Summit is a great, old beautiful town that offers ex-New Yorkers many of the conveniences of urban living but with good public schools and reasonably low crime. So our kids get what they need and moms/dads can retain some vestiges of cosmopolitan life. For all this talk of people leaving NJ to get away from high taxes, parents are escaping from Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Hoboken to raise the kids in the top NJ suburbs. The rich are getting richer. Maybe it's more relevant to say the upper middle class is getting richer. Summit and towns like it will benefit in the future.

But as the other poster noted, don't expect a block filled with multifamily apts. to suddenly turn into a block with single family homes. It's a landlord's market and there's money to be made for the owners keeping their properties as is. I just think that there will be people used to NYC who will think the block quaint by their standards and won't mind buying a nice single family home from you someday in the future. Yes, another good point

We looked at Summit a while back but opted for Westfield. You can buy slightly more house for the money (only slightly) and you get to say that you that you do not pay the highest property taxes in Union County. (only second highest!) I love Westfield but the commute is sort of a dealbreaker for my husband. A co-worker of his lives there and he's a workaholic who doesn't mind the longer, less direct commute. But I think my husband is sort of maxed out at this so it's a compromise.

You and your realtor know if the house has been on the market too long without offers at the current price and if the seller will reduce at the end of the month or if the seller will wait it out in Spring. Your realtor will hopefully give you honest advice about whether bidding wars are coming in March. I think this is where we're stuck. Our realtor feels that given this home is being sold by a builder, he will be less likely to come down much in price much as he has several other projects in the area and wants to sell at a certain price point. But she does feel we'd have some leeway in terms of getting him to fix a few things up (the backyard needs to be seeded in the spring, the detached garage and driveway, while fine, could use a little sprucing up) for "free." Still, we'd really like to get the price down some more. Our agent has also sent us the sold listings in our price range from last season and we can see how quickly houses sold and, yes, were often bid up. They still sold at prices we could manage but they often lacked in space. And I feel like the only person who wins in a bidding war is the seller. What's tough is that from our novice perspective, we do feel if a house has been on the market for 2 months with no offers (besides ours, that we know of anyway) that this obviously points to the ask price being too high. But our agent, who is very good and knows this market well (she's lived here for many years and bought and sold herself several times) feels that the house will ultimately sell for not all that much less than what he's asking, and that the fact that it's sat for a bit is just a function of the time of year.

You know what, as much as I'd encourage you to look in Westfield for reasons expressed in other posts, I just reread your original post. It sounds like you really want the house. Kids being able to walk to school is great by the way. Go for it! Good luck! We've decided to pretend today that we bought the house and see how we feel. Tomorrow we will pretend someone else did and see how we feel. I know, it's cheesy. But I do think it will help a bit.

[Goldendoodle1969]

If you are happy with the house then the only thing that matters is price. You have to make sure the purchase price reflects the poor location. Also, when you go to sell it you have to make sure that the asking price reflects the location...people seem to have very short memories when it comes to this. Houses in bad locations sell just like houses in good locations they just take a little longer to do so.

[nnjguy]

"Our agent has also sent us the sold listings in our price range from last season and we can see how quickly houses sold and, yes, were often bid up. They still sold at prices we could manage but they often lacked in space. And I feel like the only person who wins in a bidding war is the seller. What's tough is that from our novice perspective, we do feel if a house has been on the market for 2 months with no offers (besides ours, that we know of anyway) that this obviously points to the ask price being too high. But our agent, who is very good and knows this market well (she's lived here for many years and bought and sold herself several times) feels that the house will ultimately sell for not all that much less than what he's asking, and that the fact that it's sat for a bit is just a function of the time of year."

I know of a house in Summit in the same price range that recently sold in a day. There are buyers out there at all times of year. Remember, your agent wants you to buy so that he can collect his commission and move on. I'm not saying he's trying to ********* or intentionally give you bad advice, but any agent, no matter how good intentioned, is always going to have that conflict of interest. Only buy the house if you think you could sell it for the same price or higher in 6 months if, for example, you suddenly lost your job, got relocated, etc. The fact that a house in that price range has sat on the market for that long does indicate that it's overpriced somewhat. Put in a bid for what you think is a fair amount and move on if the builder says no.

[jaymoney]

I think it depends on the problems of the location. The neighbors are going to come and go, and there's little you can do about it. But within walking distance of the town center is always going to be the same.

So, as you say, "The location itself is quite good" but the curb appeal of the neighbors is your issue. Frankly, it sounds like all the house can do is go up in value should the neighborhood change for the better. We're a single family on live a street with mostly multifamily homes, but I have a five minute walk to the train and schools within walking distance. It is great and the neighbors are all really nice. If you're talking about a five year deal, I doubt the neighbors are going to cause the home values to plunge downward in that time.

I don't see this as that big a sticking point. If the house in in your range and meets your criteria there's very little you can do about the neighbors.

[Ivan Putski]

I think I know the house you're looking at and boy is that a tough decision given your circumstances. You have the park right there and the school is within walking distance. These builders also did a really nice job rehabbing (and staging) the place and no doubt it would be a great house for you and your family.

My only concern would be the value of the house 5-7 years from now. Given the neighborhood and area comps, I just can't see that house breaking even if you pay anywhere near what they're asking for should you decide to sell in 5 years. I'm not so sure the house as it stands right now would even appraise at the price they're asking for.

I would personally pass on this house for fear of buyer's remorse and constantly questioning whether or not we made the right financial decision. As they say, don't ever buy the most expensive house on the street... Also, not to pass judgement on your realtor but she sounds extremely pushy to me and will say whatever will make you guys jump on this deal ASAP. I'd pass on her too.