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EIC has absolutely nothing to do with Section 8 or qualifying chidren. Anyone with in the income limits regardless if they have children or recieve any type of assistance can get EIC. And as far not people not contributing as much as they get back in tax dollars, the wealthiest in this nation get all their tax money back and then some in most cases. And I'm not sure what houses you have been in but I honestly have never been to a home, section 8 or otherwise , that was littered with trash. I think you may be exaggerating just a tad. How many Section 8 homes have you been in that were like this ? You really do your best to try to make it seem like people are wrong for accepting help from government programs and those who choose not to accept help are some how better. That is certainly not the case. I feel that if a person can qualify for the help then they should use it while they need it. If a person feels they are too good to accept the help that they really need, that's fine too. Meanwhile everyone is still paying taxes ( including those who are "too good"), the programs are still here, other people are getting the help they need, while those who feel they are too good to accept assistance continue to gripe about how they had to work 6 jobs because they could never, ever imagine using any of the programs that their tax dollars fund. Just does'nt make sense to me.
We are not talking about the wealthy we are talking about the poor. The wealthy contribute I think about 60% of the taxes and they can probably more than afford to. I am not exaggerating at all speaking from what I know and have seen. Do not get mad at me because I speak from what I know and if you are from Newark or an inner city area I am dying to know how you have not seen a house with trash on the lawn or junk on the front porch in a section of town known for Section 8, crime, and . I never said my friends or I were too good. What I said was they chose to work hard and then have children and even after they had children and struggle because they wanted to set an example for their children to depend on no one but yourself and if you don't like a situation work hard to get out of it. And the bottom line is you have to make a certain amount to get on and stay on these programs. What about the person making $60k with a family of 4??? Their kids don't even qualify for free lunches!!! It's fine to help the needy and the poor but when does the help stop and they get better paying jobs???? There are so many programs to help assist you with your skills but people don't utilize that, they utilize welfare. I know a single mother who already struggled to support her two daughters (yes she received child support) but she proceeded to proclaim how she loved being pregnant, met another loser, had a baby with him and continued to cry and complain how hard it was for her. She received assistance for her energy bills, she will go down to Catholic Charities with a sob story for assistance with rent. Oh by the way she moves every taxseason and buys a ton of new furniture and clothes. Please don't act like this behavior is not shared by many people who know how to use the system to their advantage.
Ok, so tell me what is the "home address" you, as a homeless, going to fill out?
Or, even better one, who you know would hire homeless. As a landlord, you do not even want to rent Section 8, would your company hire a homeless? I doubt.
Even a better test, pick a mall of many stores, and walk in to each one and ask the manager you want to apply for job, see what happens. Don't forget to tell them you are homeless to start with ... Do you think there are more Amreicans like you discriminate Section 8, or more discriminate homeless?
I bet you will be crying out of mall and come back to write some thoughts totally different, and I will wait for your new thoughts.
Halfway houses. There are shelters (maybe not enough) but there are some. There are programs to help them receive assistance to stay at a home. You can rent a room for a few dollars a week with that money. The problem is many have alcohol or drug problems and don't want the help.
Have to agree with Mike on this one. Just another way for people to get something for nothing and learn to depends on others and the government.
section 8 is not good, sure it serves a purpose but the whole system could use a good revamp.
THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A LITTLE HELP. THE GOVERMENT IS VERY BACKWARD THEY WILL HELP THE ONES WHO SIT AROUND ALL DAY AND WAIT ON THE GOVERMENT TO PAY THEIR BILLS AND THEN THERE IS THOSE WHO WORK AND JUST NEED A LITTLE HELP. SO IN A WAY SECTION 8 IS GOOD FOR THE WORKING FAMILIES NOT FOR THE HELPLESS FAMILIES WHO WAIT ON THE SYSTEM ALL THE TIME
We are not talking about the wealthy we are talking about the poor. The wealthy contribute I think about 60% of the taxes and they can probably more than afford to. I am not exaggerating at all speaking from what I know and have seen. Do not get mad at me because I speak from what I know and if you are from Newark or an inner city area I am dying to know how you have not seen a house with trash on the lawn or junk on the front porch in a section of town known for Section 8, crime, and . I never said my friends or I were too good. What I said was they chose to work hard and then have children and even after they had children and struggle because they wanted to set an example for their children to depend on no one but yourself and if you don't like a situation work hard to get out of it. And the bottom line is you have to make a certain amount to get on and stay on these programs. What about the person making $60k with a family of 4??? Their kids don't even qualify for free lunches!!! It's fine to help the needy and the poor but when does the help stop and they get better paying jobs???? There are so many programs to help assist you with your skills but people don't utilize that, they utilize welfare. I know a single mother who already struggled to support her two daughters (yes she received child support) but she proceeded to proclaim how she loved being pregnant, met another loser, had a baby with him and continued to cry and complain how hard it was for her. She received assistance for her energy bills, she will go down to Catholic Charities with a sob story for assistance with rent. Oh by the way she moves every taxseason and buys a ton of new furniture and clothes. Please don't act like this behavior is not shared by many people who know how to use the system to their advantage.
Here is my two cents. Firstly, your observatioin is fact, but here is the reason.
1. I am trash and litter expert because I got "millions" of trash removed each year. Me and my family even picked up trash for MIT and Harvard Univ last summer. We got off the train from hotel to Boston, and walk with fish net all the way crossing bridge to MIT and Harvard, and along the road, we picked up thousands of trashes.
Why you see trashes at crowd area, not rural area. My understanding is that rural area, people drive, NOT walk, so there is no way to have much trash on street. e.g. In Basking Ridge and Warren, most area I saw no trash and need our help, those area is so rural to walk. In Edison and Piscataway area, we picked lots of trash in the area where people can walk, and not they getting cleaner. e.g. We just did the Edison Post Office at Kilmer, some people going to NYC and park the car along, and litter. We also did Edison Train Station, and now it is very clean.
Another reason for wealthy place litte trash, other than not too many places can walk is that they have budget to get township to clean. Poor area may not have budget, yet many people commute by foot.
So, who are the people litter? Mostly young people or students, this can be shown by Wachung Hills Reginal Hills high school used to full of trashes when we took kids to Murray Hill Chinese school there. But, after all these year, they getting clean, why? I picked them up. I picked up thousands pieces each weekend for them while waiting. And I invented "trash fishing" with $5 fish net, picking up trash became a sport and fun and good exercise.
Since the "trash theory" says, one piece may attract many, so ever since I enact "zero tolerance", the high school became fewer and fewer trashes, and this is true for Piscataway High School, used to be lots of trashes, not any more, very clean.
How about Newark? It was tough, too many people and too few places to go, but we did pick up for Newark at their park, for example. Each of us have to hold TWO huge Fish Nets to do Trash fishing, and we were able to clean the whole park in just one hour. Along the roads, my kids with roller skate and two fish nets were able to sweep the whole park and picked up all trash.
We also did Liberty State Park, Wall St, Menlo Park Mall, Highland Park, ...etc, and many places ever since we did the sweep, they decided a clean environment is great for health and business, e.g. I saw NO trash at Menlo Park Mall now because they hire staff to picked all litter like Disneyworld.
We also called township Health Dept to enforce should the trash is overwhelmed, and my son will call public works to patch all the pot holes seen in Piscataway roads, some roads that he called so many times that township even repave it like Birch Run, Sewell Rd, Mountain Av ...etc. and he got his PHS environment club to do the same thing, so Piscataway became very clean recent years and many new paved roads.
We also did for Edison, like Brunswick Rd finally get repaved recently after we got a whole group of 500 members to call Edison Mayor Office. and the result is Edison Hollow South sold out, Edison/Blueberry Village Apt rent out, people like the area, so clean and so new.
In summary, trash can NOT be used to determine good or bad people, it is just that full of resource or lack of them.
2. People became poor when they have a kid, why? as I said somewhere, kid is like a homeless.
If you think "little help" is enough to bring you back to normal, I can help you.
In general, situation like you, you may rent a house from Chinese landlord, you can find them in bullitin board of Asian Food Center or the like. e.g. 20 years ago, a room from Chinese landlord was $300 a month, and I still find many of them at that price range. Why is that? traditionally, Chinese tend to buy real estate and keep, so the cost base is lower.
i'M NOT TALKING A LITTLE HELP LIKE THAT I'M SAYING US AS WORKING PEOPLE MIGHT NEED SOME ASSISTENCE BUT WE AS WORKING PEOPLE GET TURNED AWAY. SO WHAT I'M SAYING IS MAYBE THE GOVERMENT GIVE US A BOOST THEN WE WON'T HAVE TO ASK FOR MUCH. THIS GOES FOR WORKING FAMILIES
definately u r a good example.. unfortunately most people become dependent on this assistance and take advantage.. i was renting a place and some people inquiring about the apt asked if i accepted section 8.. of course I had to say yes but really I prefer not to.. many of them were proud to have section 8.. and some actually said that it was the govt duty to help them and for me not to worry about getting the rent from the state.. anyways I rented to section 8 once and had a bad experience.. learned my lesson and will avoid doing this again.. many of the people i met on section 8 had better vehicles than me.. some had no regards to money, as if they had enough.. some claim they had it as much as 10 yrs.. I think there should be a limit for the assistance.. maybe 2 yrs... and if in school. 4 yrs.. i hate to see our tax money just thrown to so many lazy people..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam27
Section 8 Success story right here! When I was 19 (with a 4 year old son) my cousin called me early in the morning telling me that there was a "Section 8 Line" that we would have stand in for hours, in order to sign up for Section 8. Needless to say...I wasn't very interested. She practically drug me out of bed to go. And it turns out that that was one of the best things I've done to better my life.
I was able to remove myself and my son from "The Hood", and a very negative environment; to a more positive one. I remember my rent being just $12!! But at the same time, I was in college and not working much. Section 8 allowed me to be able to focus on school and get good grades, instead of having to work full time in order to pay full rent. I really think that if I wouldn't have had Section 8, I would have not finished college because of the negative environment that my son and I were in. I would have just worked my behind off to get us a better place to live, and probably would have never had time for school.
I graduated from Temple U when I was 25 and now...2 years later, I have a great job with a great salary, and I'm about to close on my first condo!! I'll be saying bye bye to Section 8 on February 25th when I close. So all in all, I think that Section 8 is a good thing for those who plan to use it to better their lives. BUT, I'd say about 85% of the people who are on Section 8 are not using it for that reason. I have friends and know people from "The Hood" that are having babies and purposely loosing their jobs just so that their rent will be lower. That's not right. I think there should be a 5 year limit on Section 8. I mean, I did it in 5 years...so it's definitely possible.
2. People became poor when they have a kid, why? as I said somewhere, kid is like a homeless, and harder to support, but why poor people tend to have more kids. Here is the reason, one girl fell in love with young man and had a kid, then the young man left when the kid (homeless) comes, and then the single mom has no help but another man who like the woman and help (believe or not, very few men willing to help a woman they do not like, try it. have you helped any woman you do not like? be honest, men.), and then he woman fell in love with the 2nd man, and then want to have their own kid, so then have more kid (i.e. more homeless to support), then the 2nd man could not handle, and escape, then you got that cycle going ... So, from peope like you knows nothing about the reason may observe the fact you described.
i'M NOT TALKING A LITTLE HELP LIKE THAT I'M SAYING US AS WORKING PEOPLE MIGHT NEED SOME ASSISTENCE BUT WE AS WORKING PEOPLE GET TURNED AWAY. SO WHAT I'M SAYING IS MAYBE THE GOVERMENT GIVE US A BOOST THEN WE WON'T HAVE TO ASK FOR MUCH. THIS GOES FOR WORKING FAMILIES
In general, I would not recommend to "count on government", and that's why people come to me for help, I just help. Why? because in Economics, there is thing called "transaction cost" in addtion to "access cost".
e.g. If you do not have a car, you may buy a gallon of milk at locat store walkable from your home at $4 (access cost), but if you have a car, you may drive to Costco to buy at $3 (access cost of milk), and paid $1 gas for driving (transaction cost). So, people have car or easy access (i.e. little tansaction cost) to Costco may think poor people waste money to pay MORE for milk ...
So, government may have $1,000 to help you, but may cost you $2000 to get it (transaction cost), so would you get it? No. If it cost you NOTHING to get it, then, why not? So, getting Section 8 or not, really depends on each individual.
I used to help a homeless who was IT professionals making 6 digit at Wall St before 911. His problem was that he could NOT catch his unemployment while living in NYC because hostel he could afford to stay has 14 days limit, so his unemployment never able to catch him, and he kept on moving ... eve since I helped him to find a "furnish room", he got his unemployment 2 months later, and was able to paid 3 month rent all at once, he later went back to work at Wall St again...
I think what you said is more than true, and in fact as far as I know government going to give each of you $1,600 cash to give all a boost... To certain extend, President Bush is a Great President.
Unlike NJ Governor going to double the toll roads, after all, NJ Governor used to work at Goldman Sachs, the most selfish company in the world. I would be very surprise if he can give everyone in NJ a brake, not even a boost.
If he ask me how to become a good governor, I would tell him (first fasten the seat bell all the time), and then maybe give realtors a brake by relax some real estate law (i.e. lower the transaction cost, e.g. million dollar house should not pay $10,000 extra tax for both buyer and seller), say, for some years till real estate catch up speed again.
Do NOT try to balance the deficit while economy is slow; do it later when economy gets better. Make all basic utilities affordable, such as water, heat, gas ... by a new funding from NJ State secured bond. When you start doing so, you will see many economic activities emerges, and state shall receive more tax to pay the bond and balance the deficit.
This is very simple but arrogant economics theory to "lower the transaction cost" or even better, make it ZERO.
Neither NJ Governor, nor NYC Mayor qualified for a Great President because they do NOT have a "warm heart". They area all unusually wealthy, but never heard they help any homeless WITH THEIR OWN MONEY.
Think of this, dozen years later when they die, their fortune can not go with them at all, who take them? Their kids. They love their kids billions, but they love their people nothing. If they just leave $5m to their kids, and give the rest to help their people, they will be the Greatest Governor or Mayor, and people are fair, they will remember them.
The key is "willing to use your own money, hard earn money to help homeless".
definately u r a good example.. unfortunately most people become dependent on this assistance and take advantage.. i was renting a place and some people inquiring about the apt asked if i accepted section 8.. of course I had to say yes but really I prefer not to.. many of them were proud to have section 8.. and some actually said that it was the govt duty to help them and for me not to worry about getting the rent from the state.. anyways I rented to section 8 once and had a bad experience.. learned my lesson and will avoid doing this again.. many of the people i met on section 8 had better vehicles than me.. some had no regards to money, as if they had enough.. some claim they had it as much as 10 yrs.. I think there should be a limit for the assistance.. maybe 2 yrs... and if in school. 4 yrs.. i hate to see our tax money just thrown to so many lazy people..
Your experience only further prove that it is better to give needed people a "cash loan" like kids going to college, need money to pay rent, their parents will better give them "cash loan" than "cash assistance". That's why many parents give "cash allowance" and let them decide how to spend, so they may not rent a place they can not afford.
I my home, we do not give kids cash allowance, they have to "earn it", you got an A home, you earn $1, so you got 5 A's today, you got $5. You got 100 points, another $1, if won #1 in NJ Science League Competition, you got $10, if you got #1 on final, you got $100, you got Nantional final on FBLA for Piscataway High School, you got $1000.
So, when I helped homeless, say, in Pittsburgh, they asked $1 from me to eat lunch, I asked them to help me clean the park in front of Omni Hotel. I paid them $20 an hour to clean the park, and just one hours, we fill dozens of 30 gallon garbage cans, and dozen polices cars showed up asking why I got so many homeless here. I asked the officer, don't you like a clean park?
When my tenant could not pay rent, I get realtors who could not sell home to call him to get him to distribute 1,000 flyers to prospective buyer community before open house, and the listing always sold, and for 1,000 flyers, I told my tenant to charge $100 for that 2 hours work. You need to be able to make $50 an hour to have a decent life. Many realtors made more than that. much more than that.
So, while you want to cut down Section 8, you need to have talent and experience like myself to have a working alternative. You can't just cut something existed without BETTER solution, or you will get hit by many DEALERS of homeless and poor people.
If all landlord is like myself, there is no need for Section 8, and that's why I never evicted any tenant who could not pay rent on time. So to certain extend, someone out there getting Section 8 should appreciate me not evicted all my tenants, or they shall compete Section 8 voucher with you.
And, of course, people oppose Section 8 should also appreciate that I handle all these poor families, otherwise, will cost government Section 8, and maybe your tax money. and, do you know, I never need to write off "loss" to pay less tax to government? I started from the first day to rule that option out, so I would NEVER let investment loss.
Here is how I did, I invested on many condos, and for ones can not pay rent, I asked them to "serve" who pay HIGH rent at $50 an hour. e.g. a tenant couple working at Wall St making over $200,000, and I asked the tenant could not pay rent to clean their condo and paid them $150 that can be used to deduct from the rent.
Anyway, I urge landlords do not know how to handle Section 8 tenants, or just don't want to bother to invest on 1br 1ba condo that you never get hit by Section 8 tenants, as most of them are single mom with little kids, REQUIRED by Section 8 office.
For those who want to help Section 8 tenants, buy 2br units or 3br townhouses at the community with nice pool and tennis court and playground so that they can make friends in the community, and most resourceful neighbors can help them too.
Yet, if you want to help poor people but NOT thru Section 8, my model could be the best. If just want to help once in a while, then call your Mayor to get to know your low shelter, and sponsor trash picking project, and pay $50 an hour for the job, and you will have thousands of trashes picked up in your town, and give your needed people a boost.
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Your Wrong
When I was 19 (with a 4 year old son) my cousin called me early in the morning telling me that there was a "Section 8 Line" that we would have stand in for hours, in order to sign up for Section 8. Needless to say...I wasn't very interested. She practically drug me out of bed to go. And it turns out that that was one of the best things I've done to better my life.
