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As a PA resident, I have always been curious about this: how come there is less public transportation in South Jersey than North Jersey? Now I know that South Jersey is less dense than North Jersey, but it's not like South Jersey isn't in the MSA and CSA of the 2nd largest city on the East Coast, Philadelphia.
NJ is unique in that all of the state falls between the New York CSA and the Philadelphia CSA. It has well-developed connections to New York City. PATH, Amtrak, the Hudson-Bergen and Newark Light Rail lines, and various NJ Transit commuter and bus lines serve North Jersey very thoroughly. South of Trenton seems significantly less covered. The ACL is the only NJ Transit commuter line that serves South Jersey. PATCO also serves South Jersey, and with 24/7 service, similar to PATH. The RiverLine connects Camden to Trenton. Finally, there are bus lines that traverse South Jersey and even come into Philly.
To better connect New Jersey to the Philadelphia area, should new transit be considered? I could easily see commuter lines to Glassboro, Vineland, and Salem operated by SEPTA under contract to NJT. There is already existing rail infrastructure to all three destinations via the ex-PRR/RDG Seashore Lines. These lines could be electrified and integrated with the SEPTA system. Woodbury could become a major multi-modal terminal. A tunnel under the Delaware River could connect commuter lines in New Jersey to Center City Philadelphia, thus avoiding Pavonia Yard and the Delair Bridge. Arch Street would be perfect for such a tunnel.
Again, I am not a NJ resident. I'm just curious about public transportation in South Jersey.
Here is the a population map of NJ. since transpiration cost money, there has to be a population base for it. if no-one lives there there is no reason to run run train tracks
Transit is like Ariel the mermaid. It wants to be where the people are.
The people are in North/Central Jersey. Sure, it would be great to have more rail transit in South Jersey, but let's face it. Given the Hudson River tunnel issues, whatever Federal and state money we can get for transit is going to be devoted to the tunnels. That is the state's top transit priority for the foreseeable future.
I once (a few months ago) calculated the percentage of the population of NJ that lives in the north and south regions, dividing the counties by MSA, for another thread. I thought it would be a 60-40 split. It was closer to 75-25. About 75% of the state population lives in the NYC area, as it is defined by the Census.
Southern NJ is just not populated enough IMO. I don't live in South Jersey but I'm sure improvements/expansions are necessary, but I don't think it will/should ever look like North Jersey's transportation until their population and development otherwise increases.
I think it is necessary to expand the options, but I don't know about Vineland and Salem. The lines in the North primarily serve commuters. Very few people, practically no one for all intents and purposes, are commuting to Philly from Salem and Cumberland Counties. The expansion should be focused more on Camden, Burlington, and Gloucester Counties.
The Glassboro-Camden Line, IF (not when) it gets built, will serve both Glassboro and Woodbury. Granted, like the RiverLine, it's light rail that terminates in Camden and thus requires a PATCO transfer, so it's a little different from what might be really needed.
If I had my druthers about it, I would say two NJ Transit lines to Philly for Burlington County...one terminating in Shamong and another terminating in Mt. Holly. They can converge on Pennsauken before crossing over like the AC Line does (or a free trip on the RiverLine to WRTC to get onto PATCO if you need to be in that part of Philly). And then one to Philly for Gloucester County that comes through Camden County towards the end to serve some places that don't get served by the Glassboro-Camden Line. Maybe you take it out to Vineland and Milville to terminate, but I totally understand why that may not be the most practical thing to do.
Infrastructure must be low on the list of politicians priorities. The only time we see or hear from them is when a bridge or road collapses.Then they are front and center blaming somebody else for why it happened.
Here is the a population map of NJ. since transpiration cost money, there has to be a population base for it. if no-one lives there there is no reason to run run train tracks
Thank you for providing this! I always knew that SJ was less dense, but there are some huge areas of green! There are some intense red areas in SJ, however. Like someone else said, SJ shouldn't have as much transportation as North Jersey; however, some improvements could be made to transit in SJ. New Jersey has always struck me as a weird state (no offense). It seems like every road is a highway (at least in SJ).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leps12
I think it is necessary to expand the options, but I don't know about Vineland and Salem. The lines in the North primarily serve commuters. Very few people, practically no one for all intents and purposes, are commuting to Philly from Salem and Cumberland Counties. The expansion should be focused more on Camden, Burlington, and Gloucester Counties.
The Glassboro-Camden Line, IF (not when) it gets built, will serve both Glassboro and Woodbury. Granted, like the RiverLine, it's light rail that terminates in Camden and thus requires a PATCO transfer, so it's a little different from what might be really needed.
If I had my druthers about it, I would say two NJ Transit lines to Philly for Burlington County...one terminating in Shamong and another terminating in Mt. Holly. They can converge on Pennsauken before crossing over like the AC Line does (or a free trip on the RiverLine to WRTC to get onto PATCO if you need to be in that part of Philly). And then one to Philly for Gloucester County that comes through Camden County towards the end to serve some places that don't get served by the Glassboro-Camden Line. Maybe you take it out to Vineland and Milville to terminate, but I totally understand why that may not be the most practical thing to do.
I 100% agree with the logic about a commuter line to Mt. Holly! I don't know why I forgot to mention this yesterday. A branch line could be built off SEPTA's two outer NEC tracks just north of Croydon. The line could follow the general bath of NJ 541, serving Burlington and possible park-and-rides at the I-295 and NJ Turnpike interchanges. This line could even continue on to serve Pemberton and Fort Dix. A line to Shamong could be a branch of PATCO, serving Glendale, Vorhees, Evesham, and Medford before reaching Shamong.
I also agree that spending should be on Burlington, Camden, and Gloucester Counties. It would be nice to serve Cumberland and Salem Counties since they are in Philly's CSA (I also think SEPTA should serve Perryville, MD since Cecil County is in Philly's CSA, but that's a topic for another thread), but these are the main counties where NJ residents commute to Philly. The line to Glassboro should absolutely be built, although not as light rail. A PATCO extension would be a much better option (albeit more expensive).
New Jersey has always struck me as a weird state (no offense). It seems like every road is a highway (at least in SJ).
Come to North Jersey. It's definitely not like that. Northern NJ, especially closer to NYC in counties like Union and Essex, has quaint downtowns in small towns that have existed since the Revolution. There are plenty of roads that aren't highways.
Come to North Jersey. It's definitely not like that. Northern NJ, especially closer to NYC in counties like Union and Essex, has quaint downtowns in small towns that have existed since the Revolution. There are plenty of roads that aren't highways.
I'll have to make a trip up there at some point. The only times I have ever been in North Jersey were either on I-95, I-78, or on NJ Transit heading towards New York. I would like to explore it. In fact, I was considering a mini-trip to Jersey City while in New York. I hear there is a lot of highrise construction happening in JC. Other than that, the only non-South Jersey town I've had a chance to explore is Phillipsburg since I can just walk over the Northampton Street Bridge from Easton.
Jersey does surprise me sometimes. The first time I took I-78 through Warren County to get to JFK from college for my study abroad trip to Paris, I was surprised to see how mountainous it was. It should have been obvious to me, but I had never realized Jersey had mountains until then. I hear that the Kittatinny Mountains in NE North Jersey are even higher.
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