New Jersey ranks amongst the LEAST free states: Why? (Toms River: sales, how much)

[cleetuss]

Awesome Pic.
And I agree with you on on all your points.

Funny thing is that yesterday, I was actually thinking about taking a drive over to Flatbrook and popping off a few boxes of shells at the range. Maybe even break out the muzzeloader. After this post... I'm loading up the truck.

[Badfish740]

Welcome to the forum-I agree, way too much focus on the Route 1 Corridor in this forum. Northwest Jersey may as well not even exist! I don't go in the South Jersey forum much, but from what little I see it seems like Cherry Hill, Mount Laurel, and not much else...

Originally Posted by cleetuss

Awesome Pic.

That's Ken Lockwood Gorge, where the South Branch of the Raritan runs through the mountains in Hunterdon near Glen Gardner.

Originally Posted by cleetuss

Funny thing is that yesterday, I was actually thinking about taking a drive over to Flatbrook and popping off a few boxes of shells at the range. Maybe even break out the muzzeloader. After this post... I'm loading up the truck.

Christie eases gun rules, says N.J.

You can now legally stop to grab a bite at Jumboland on the way I haven't been up to the Flatbrook in about a year and half. Some buddies and I used to camp, fish, and go four wheeling up at Bear Creek every spring but it's been a while. As I understand it Stokes has closed a lot of the roads that bordered the Gap as well (Struble, Dimon, Coss, Brink, etc...) due to Citiots in Jeeps making a mess of things...

[cleetuss]

Originally Posted by Badfish740

I agree, way too much focus on the Route 1 Corridor in this forum. Northwest Jersey may as well not even exist!

Its a whole new world between I80 34B and the Gap. I moved from Clifton 18 years ago.

Originally Posted by Badfish740

As I understand it Stokes has closed a lot of the roads that bordered the Gap as well (Struble, Dimon, Coss, Brink, etc...) due to Citiots in Jeeps making a mess of things...

Yes - Please don't get me started. I see it daily. Similar to the the buss loads of people from Central Jersey and NYC that show up at Mountain Creek. I live here and I have to go somewhere else to escape the idiocy. I now refuse to Ski there.

[Retriever]

Originally Posted by Blue biker

NH rated high because you don't have to wear seat belts or motorcycle helmets.

Yup!
In the Live Free or Die state, you have the right to turn yourself into the next Gary Busey.

However--IMHO--for those who opt to drive without seatbelts, and those who choose to ride without a helmet, there should be no requirement for a health insurance company to pay for that person's treatment and continuing care, nor should the government pay--through any form of charity care--for that person's treatment and care.

[Badfish740]

Originally Posted by Retriever

However--IMHO--for those who opt to drive without seatbelts, and those who choose to ride without a helmet, there should be no requirement for a health insurance company to pay for that person's treatment and continuing care, nor should the government pay--through any form of charity care--for that person's treatment and care.

Full discretion, I would never drive a car without a seatbelt, nor ride a motorcycle without a helmet. HOWEVER...by your logic shouldn't we deny medical insurance to obese people with Type II diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, and other ailments caused by their poor dietary choices? Or should we ban all fatty and sugary foods? Perhaps we should allow fatty and sugary foods in moderation, but institute some sort of monitoring system to ensure that everyone is "doing their part?"



If you added it up, obesity costs us far more than people who don't wear helmets or seatbelts. Primarily because those people don't often live to receive much medical care once they're involved in an accident. Without a seatbelt, hitting a tree at as little as 20 MPH can easily kill a person.

[Retriever]

Originally Posted by Badfish740

Full discretion, I would never drive a car without a seatbelt, nor ride a motorcycle without a helmet. HOWEVER...by your logic shouldn't we deny medical insurance to obese people with Type II diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, and other ailments caused by their poor dietary choices? Or should we ban all fatty and sugary foods? Perhaps we should allow fatty and sugary foods in moderation, but institute some sort of monitoring system to ensure that everyone is "doing their part?"

I don't think that this is a valid comparison, because there are no laws--AFAIK--banning bad diets.
However, most states do have both seatbelt and helmet laws--and for good reasons.

[cleetuss]

Originally Posted by Retriever

I don't think that this is a valid comparison, because there are no laws--AFAIK--banning bad diets.

And there lies the problem. Things that really do matter do not matter in this country. Its all about the almighty dollar.

Statistically... The US is the "Fattest" country on the planet.
Europe has banned the GMO's and cancer causing chemicals that are killing us and our kids already.

But Freedom is the American way.
Another round of McDonalds to please! ... and could you supersize that!

[Retriever]

Originally Posted by cleetuss

And there lies the problem. Things that really do matter do not matter in this country. Its all about the almighty dollar.

...and if there was an attempt to outlaw bad dietary habits, then there would be outcries about the incursion of "Big Government" into people's kitchens.

Do you recall the epithets that were tossed at Mike Bloomberg when he wanted to outlaw supersized soft drinks? In case you don't recall, he was referred to as a "Nazi"--which of course trivializes what actually took place when the National Socialists ruled Germany.

[Badfish740]

Originally Posted by Retriever

I don't think that this is a valid comparison, because there are no laws--AFAIK--banning bad diets. However, most states do have both seatbelt and helmet laws--and for good reasons.

You inferred that people who don't wear seatbelts or helmets could potentially cost the rest of us money in the form of increased insurance premiums and/or taxes because of their higher rate of serious injury. I pointed out that if we're going in that direction, why not look at the things that cost us the most money? The economic cost of diabetes in the U.S. in 2012 was $245 billion.

Originally Posted by Retriever

Do you recall the epithets that were tossed at Mike Bloomberg when he wanted to outlaw supersized soft drinks? In case you don't recall, he was referred to as a "Nazi"--which of course trivializes what actually took place when the National Socialists ruled Germany.

I never referred to him as a Nazi, nor would I refer to Jim Kenny (who is pushing this nonsense now in Philadelphia) as a Nazi. I simply refer to them as "wrong."

[Retriever]

Originally Posted by Badfish740

I never referred to him as a Nazi

Nor did I state that you did!
However, that epithet was very freely thrown around by lots of other people when Bloomberg suggested that it might not be healthy for people to drink 32 ounces of high fructose corn syrup-sweetened soft drinks at a sitting. The correlation with an increased propensity for Type-II Diabetes was mentioned in the course of the city's efforts in banning super-sized soft drinks, but the hue and cry of the public against those efforts was...significant.

I don't recall any significant protests when seatbelt and helmet laws were promulgated.