Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No doubt that West Orange taxes are extraordinarily high, even for Essex County, however, Saddle River is a bit of an outlier to be a fair comparison, especially that specific property?
First, Saddle River has zoning which requires a minimum of 2 acres per property. And, the town is less than 5 square miles in size. That means it has only a fraction of the population of West Orange (which is more than double the size to begin with in square mileage), due to the fact that the number of households in Saddle River is naturally going to be a lot smaller with that kind of zoning (West Orange has a population of 45,000+, while Saddle River has a population of 3,500+). That means fewer municipal resources in terms of both municipal employees and infrastructure. I don't even think that Saddle River has a DPW, and their small fire department is 100% volunteer. West Orange has 4 different fire stations. As far as school goes, there is exactly ONE (elementary) school in Saddle River, and it is tiny. West Orange has 11 schools (7 elementary, 3 middle, 1 high school).
As for the specific property that you mention...something does not compute. The property tax rate in Saddle River is 0.987% (very low for all the reasons I already mentioned above). If the taxes are $5,882, that means the assessed value is only ~$600,000. Not doubting the figures you posted, I just think it's curious. In Saddle River a sales price of just under a million will often get you just land, without a house.
Since West Orange has so many people, and therefore should benefit from economies of scale, the taxes per capita should be lower, not higher. But in any case, I could have done the comparison with most other towns and achieved the same shocking conclusion. You also point out that Saddle River has much smaller government. BINGO! That's what we need everywhere. Less oppressive local government, and far less in taxes and services.
In the final analysis, NOTHING you can come up with can justify the absurd private property confiscation that is portrayed by a crappy shelter-housing Bi-Level in West Orange having to shell out a $16,000 yearly annuity to the local government. SOMETHING IS DREADFULLY WRONG. There are tons of single family homes in West Orange, and a lot of condominiums also. And every last one of them is getting whacked with these oppressive and ridiculous property taxes that have to be paid with salaries already decimated and destroyed by ridiculous income taxes.
SOMETHING IS DREADFULLY WRONG. The magnitude of this rip-off is no longer a joke.
From what I understand West Orange taxes are among the worst in the state and the state is among the worst in the country for taxes. Meaning West Orange has some of the highest taxes in the whole US. Honestly while there are some perks to living there, it is ludicrous to pay more in taxes than a mortgage. Which I imagine is a common situation there. Might as well just keep renting imo.
I dont know anyone that pays more taxes than their mortgage. homes are actually a good value here in part because of higher taxes. but the taxes really aren't that much higher than anything else in this area.
It's the type of tax that blocks the poorer people out of the area from the well to do. There are lots of nice homes there and people that live there appears to conform to what I describe.
actually, this makes no sense. West Orange is an economically diverse town.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ansky
It has nothing to do with supporting Newark. The County portion of the tax bill is only about 15%. The school budget is a whopping 65% so there's your answer. The issue in WO is that the school board approves everything that comes their way. Nothing is ever voted down. They approve ridiculous things like 75K to improve lighting at the high school football field.
Well, not entirely true. West Orange gets very little state money for the schools, so we pay a lot more in local property taxes to make up for that. the WO BOE actually attempted to cut various things this year and many people showed up at the meeting to block those cuts.
actually, this makes no sense. West Orange is an economically diverse town.
Well, not entirely true. West Orange gets very little state money for the schools, so we pay a lot more in local property taxes to make up for that. the WO BOE actually attempted to cut various things this year and many people showed up at the meeting to block those cuts.
Another thing to mention is that West Orange has very little retail for such a large town. So we don't get tax dollars from local businesses which places a larger burden on homeowners. As a side note, one of the reasons I chose to live in West Orange is because it's not a "strip mall" town.
Anyways - as I was saying. Realtors are extremely misinformed about West Orange. And now we have an example of one.
I think I provided information, not misinformation. An example of misinformation would be reporting that the crappy Bi-Level in St. Cloud had property taxes of $7,000 per year. That would be misinformation. Information: The Bi-Level in St. Cloud has property taxes of $16,000+ per year, every year. That is information.
I am glad this has been brought up. Sometimes we hear the vague whine about "high property taxes in New Jersey" as an abstract concept. But West Orange is a hideous example of excessive, statist, local, confiscation of private wealth. And here we have a specific example that illustrates the insanity.
Let's provide some more misinformation so that any random apologists for statist confiscation of private property at the local level can offer some more apologies.
So what is this? A run-of-the-mill 2 BEDROOM townhouse in Crystal Woods. Basic shelter construction, nothing special, formica 80s kitchen, 1,563 square feet.
Are you ready for this misinformation? $12,004 per year. So if you live there for 5 years that would be $60,000+ not counting yearly increases. To live in a 2 bedroom old tired 1,500 sqft townhouse. And by the way, you also have to pay $4,680 per year in maintenance fees. Because guess what? Property taxes have to be paid for the common areas and the pool and the tennis court which you probably never use. So the maintenance fee has some more hidden property taxes that West Orange has to collect. It's an outrage. An absolute outrage.
And how about those increases? Zillow reports property tax increases of 4.2% for 2013, 2.9% for 2014, and 2.6% for 2015. Inflation was 1.5% for 2013, 0.8% for 2014, 0.7% for 2015, and is currently running at 1.1%. So over the last 3 years West Orange has raised property taxes 10% while inflation only ran 3%. So basically, the West Orange budget is running the same yearly increases as MEDICAL COSTS!!!!!
Here is some misinformation: Oh, but the citizens like the taxes and want the services and the increases that are running 3 times the rate of inflation.
Are you ready for this misinformation? $12,004 per year. So if you live there for 5 years that would be $60,000+ not counting yearly increases. To live in a 2 bedroom old tired 1,500 sqft townhouse. And by the way, you also have to pay $4,680 per year in maintenance fees. Because guess what? Property taxes have to be paid for the common areas and the pool and the tennis court which you probably never use. So the maintenance fee has some more hidden property taxes that West Orange has to collect. It's an outrage. An absolute outrage.
You're making it sound like the maintenance fees all go to taxes. I doubt that is the case. The association has to pay for the upkeep and maintenance of all the common areas including the pool and whatever other amenities are offered. It's not like they take all that money and just hand it over to the town.
I dont know anyone that pays more taxes than their mortgage. homes are actually a good value here in part because of higher taxes. but the taxes really aren't that much higher than anything else in this area.
You're making it sound like the maintenance fees all go to taxes. I doubt that is the case. The association has to pay for the upkeep and maintenance of all the common areas including the pool and whatever other amenities are offered. It's not like they take all that money and just hand it over to the town.
No, I said some. Some means some, not all. However what does it matter, it is insult to injury. The $12,000+ per year every year, for a crap townhouse, with increases 3 times inflation, IS PRECISELY just handed over the town, under penalty of imprisonment. And that's bad enough times about 5. You know, it's amazing, some people apologizing for this obscenity. It's akin to cattle in the slaughterhouse instructing their killers where to place the blade that slashes their neck. But that's what we see. The sanction of the victims.
Since West Orange has so many people, and therefore should benefit from economies of scale, the taxes per capita should be lower, not higher. But in any case, I could have done the comparison with most other towns and achieved the same shocking conclusion. You also point out that Saddle River has much smaller government. BINGO! That's what we need everywhere. Less oppressive local government, and far less in taxes and services.
In the final analysis, NOTHING you can come up with can justify the absurd private property confiscation that is portrayed by a crappy shelter-housing Bi-Level in West Orange having to shell out a $16,000 yearly annuity to the local government. SOMETHING IS DREADFULLY WRONG. There are tons of single family homes in West Orange, and a lot of condominiums also. And every last one of them is getting whacked with these oppressive and ridiculous property taxes that have to be paid with salaries already decimated and destroyed by ridiculous income taxes.
SOMETHING IS DREADFULLY WRONG. The magnitude of this rip-off is no longer a joke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella
I think I provided information, not misinformation. An example of misinformation would be reporting that the crappy Bi-Level in St. Cloud had property taxes of $7,000 per year. That would be misinformation. Information: The Bi-Level in St. Cloud has property taxes of $16,000+ per year, every year. That is information.
I am glad this has been brought up. Sometimes we hear the vague whine about "high property taxes in New Jersey" as an abstract concept. But West Orange is a hideous example of excessive, statist, local, confiscation of private wealth. And here we have a specific example that illustrates the insanity.
Let's provide some more misinformation so that any random apologists for statist confiscation of private property at the local level can offer some more apologies.
Don't you think you're being a little melodramatic? I mean, "statist, local, confiscation of private wealth"? "statist confiscation of private property"? "your freedom has been stripped"? This is hyperbolic (and frankly, paranoid) rhetoric, and it makes you sound a little unhinged. I find it odd that you would want to present yourself in that light, considering you are real estate agent and your name is easily Google-able.
I also find it really unprofessional, that as a real estate agent, you would post such disparaging remarks about West Orange, and the "IDIOTS" who would consider living there, or already do, in "CRAPPY" houses that have "SLIGHTLY MORE PANACHE THAN A DOUBLE-WIDE". West Orange and Essex County are not your market, so who cares, right? You even go so far as to post a specific listing and its address and make negative remarks about that specific property being "old" and "tired". Not your listing, so who cares? Again, unprofessional. If I were the seller, or the agent representing that listing, I would not be happy.
The OP didn't start this thread to debate property taxes, he started it to plug a new local website. And no one here has been an apologist for high taxes or claimed to like them. Pretty much everyone has bemoaned them. The point is, it's obviously still worth it for lots of people to live in West Orange, despite the taxes. Yeah, people like municipal services being offered. Most people need them. The average middle, and upper middle class Joe can't afford a $5 million property in Saddle River and pay out of pocket for services, e.g. spending $35,000 a year per kid to go to private or boarding school. How is West Orange supposed to model themselves after an anomaly like Saddle River?
What's it to you anyway? You, yourself, would never DEIGN to live in West Orange, so it's not like your tax money we're talking about.
FYI, the property taxes in the region that you represent are not exactly low either. Actually, they're on the higher side for the county, and are actually higher than several towns in Essex County. Are you going to be posting about how the idiot home owners and prospective buyers in your market are losing their freedom to a confiscatory statist government? Yeah, I didn't think so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella
A run-of-the-mill 2 BEDROOM townhouse in Crystal Woods. Basic shelter construction, nothing special, formica 80s kitchen, 1,563 square feet.
Are you ready for this misinformation? $12,004 per year. So if you live there for 5 years that would be $60,000+ not counting yearly increases. To live in a 2 bedroom old tired 1,500 sqft townhouse. And by the way, you also have to pay $4,680 per year in maintenance fees. Because guess what? Property taxes have to be paid for the common areas and the pool and the tennis court which you probably never use. So the maintenance fee has some more hidden property taxes that West Orange has to collect. It's an outrage. An absolute outrage.
And how about those increases? Zillow reports property tax increases of 4.2% for 2013, 2.9% for 2014, and 2.6% for 2015. Inflation was 1.5% for 2013, 0.8% for 2014, 0.7% for 2015, and is currently running at 1.1%. So over the last 3 years West Orange has raised property taxes 10% while inflation only ran 3%. So basically, the West Orange budget is running the same yearly increases as MEDICAL COSTS!!!!!
Here is some misinformation: Oh, but the citizens like the taxes and want the services and the increases that are running 3 times the rate of inflation.
Here is some information: NO, THEY DON'T.
That's not how condo communities and monthly maintenance fees work. The $390 monthly fee all goes to the HOA who budgets it for maintenance of the common areas (roof & siding repair/replacement, painting, asphalt/pavement, pool/tennis court, etc. etc.), and other services within the complex (garbage collection, snow removal, landscaping, etc. etc.).
NONE of the monthly maintenance fee goes towards property taxes or to West Orange. The town collects property taxes from individual homeowners, not the HOA.
Each homeowner collectively owns the common areas. This is already built into the value of their individual unit, and it is already reflected on their property tax bill. Separate property taxes are NOT collected on the common areas.
It may sound stupid to you to pay a monthly HOA fee, but some people don't want to bother with any home maintenance or upkeep on their own, and they don't want to DIY anything. They'd rather pay to have it all be automatically dealt with. Obviously condo ownership is not for everyone. But it's got nothing to do with property taxes or West Orange.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
