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Firstly, I don't consider Fair Lawn entirely part of Northern BC. It's like right at the cutt-off. River Edge is in the same boat. Both are kind of a mix of north and south.
You pretty much named everything in Woodcliff Lake. I would hate to depend on a single tolled road to get to relevant places.
Sure, the nice schools in South BC aren't as highly ranked as most in the North. However, I would prefer to send my kids to Rutherford than Northern Highlands and be home at a decent hour and spend time with them and being involved in their lives more. I've heard horror stories from people who live in Ridgewood and how cut-throat it is. Parents demanding lesson plans a year before so their kids can be ahead in the Fall or shopping around for a doctor that is willing to put them on ADHD meds for the added intellectual boost. No thanks, I'll pass.
Whether Fair Lawn is northern or southern BC is a strawman, my point about express trains skipping southern BC and a train commute being not that different stands.
Again, I don't think anything in Bergen can be considered isolated, it's very much a NYC metro county, close to the city, highways and shopping. Places in western Nj with 5 acre+ zoning where is takes an hour to get the grocery store is what I consider isolated.
Whether Fair Lawn is northern or southern BC is a strawman, my point about express trains skipping southern BC and a train commute being not that different stands.
Again, I don't think anything in Bergen can be considered isolated, it's very much a NYC metro county, close to the city, highways and shopping. Places in western Nj with 5 acre+ zoning where is takes an hour to get the grocery store is what I consider isolated.
To each his own regarding schools.
Express trains in/out the city only run during commuter hours. Living in South BC gives you quicker access during nights/weekends into the city for leisure purposes. You could also argue that some towns in Union/Morris/Somerset are better connected on express railway to NYC than some North BC towns. No transfer at Secaucus either!
If you're referring to people that live in Hunterdon and Warren, then I agree. However, people that live there are looking for a different way of life altogether and probably don't depend on NYC for anything. If people actually live there and commute to the city, they are NUTS.
I'm well aware of Essex County, but again, the disparity there isn't as geographical in nature as Bergen (eg Montclair and Glen Ridge are in the poorer eastern part).
Regarding proximity to the city from Bergen, most of the express trains actually skip the southern Bergen stops after Ridgewood or Fair Lawn. Thus the train ride usually isn't that much longer. If you are taking the bus, that's a different story. I'm also not sure why you would call Woodcliff Lake isolated as it has its own train stop, exit on the GSP, and even an Apple Store. It's not like any part in Bergen county is that far from the city so you can't compare it to something like Morris or Warren.
That being said, Southern BC has some decent towns like Rutherford, though at best even Rutherford compares to lower end Northern BC towns like Hillsdale or Oakland. Rutherford schools are quite above average but not on the same level as Ridgewood, Northern Highlands, or Tenafly.
I think a comparison of Rutherford to Hillsdale or Oakland is fair - certainly no one will confuse it with Saddle River or Franklin Lakes. As of 2010 median family incomes are in the same ballpark: $104,293 (Rutherford), $114,973 (Oakland), and $132,340 (Hillsdale). As for schools, Rutherford's school district is rated 8 out of 10 on Greatschools.org, compared to 9 of 10 for the districts of Ridgewood, Northern Highlands, and Tenafly. They consider ratings 8-10 are the same tier in their rating system, so I think you're splitting hairs there.
I was referring to the Wesmont development area in Wood-Ridge that is coming along nicely. Also, East Rutherford was more run-down IMO in the past. I agree the schools in both towns need some work.
The Westmont site is in a vast desolate industrial area of the northern border of town cut off from the rest of Wood-Ridge. It's the site of and old Curtiss Wright Aircraft Assembly Plant, which was so contaminated, it was declared a Superfund priority. The nearest residential neighborhood with a road that could connect to Westmont terminates in a dead end. I'm not sure that's entirely unintentional. I don't know if I'd consider the construction of Westmont to be a revitalization of all of Wood-Ridge. It appears to be intended to be its own seperate thing. And we'll see if any new residents with kids stay once they become school age.
Express trains in/out the city only run during commuter hours. Living in South BC gives you quicker access during nights/weekends into the city for leisure purposes. You could also argue that some towns in Union/Morris/Somerset are better connected on express railway to NYC than some North BC towns. No transfer at Secaucus either!
If you're referring to people that live in Hunterdon and Warren, then I agree. However, people that live there are looking for a different way of life altogether and probably don't depend on NYC for anything. If people actually live there and commute to the city, they are NUTS.
Of course express trains run during commuter and rush hours, that's normally what's relevant. Quicker access to NY via train during nights/weekends is not a compelling reason to choose a region, but again to each his own. Most of northern BC is a very a quick drive to the city if there is no traffic during nights/weekends, eg Northvale, one of the towns you deemed "isolated" is a very short drive distance wise.
You do realize Southern BC is on the same line as Northern BC and also requires a Secausus transfer if you are going to Midtown?? Southern BC doesn't get the express trains though.
Whether Fair Lawn is northern or southern BC is a strawman, my point about express trains skipping southern BC and a train commute being not that different stands.
Again, I don't think anything in Bergen can be considered isolated, it's very much a NYC metro county, close to the city, highways and shopping. Places in western Nj with 5 acre+ zoning where is takes an hour to get the grocery store is what I consider isolated.
To each his own regarding schools.
In terms of miles as the crow flies from New York City, Bergen County places like Wykoff and next door Franklin Lakes are technically not isolated at 25 miles or less away. But then how the crow flies isn't how it works. When that commute to and from your financial district job or your attempt to get home after a night out in the city having cocktails comes into play, then you'll see how the term isolation might apply for such areas. It's a 45 minute drive without traffic - a condition we know never exists in the metro NYC area, so add another 15-30 minutes to that. And getting back and forth late night on public transportation is an adventure to say the least. Parts of Bergen like them are too far of a commute for people like me and my wife, whose professional and social lives revolve around NYC.
Of course express trains run during commuter and rush hours, that's normally what's relevant. Quicker access to NY via train during nights/weekends is not a compelling reason to choose a region, but again to each his own. Most of northern BC is a very a quick drive to the city if there is no traffic during nights/weekends, eg Northvale, one of the towns you deemed "isolated" is a very short drive distance wise.
You do realize Southern BC is on the same line as Northern BC and also requires a Secausus transfer if you are going to Midtown?? Southern BC doesn't get the express trains though.
I for one don't consider driving into Manhattan ideal at all. Of course I know South BC still does the transfer, but it involves a shorter distance and you always have the bus system, which up to North BC is an odyssey. Northvale IS isolated. As is Rockleigh, Old Tappan, etc. I won't be convinced otherwise.
In terms of miles as the crow flies from New York City, Bergen County places like Wykoff and next door Franklin Lakes are technically not isolated at 25 miles or less away. But then how the crow flies isn't how it works. When that commute to and from your financial district job or your attempt to get home after a night out in the city having cocktails comes into play, then you'll see how the term isolation might apply for such areas. It's a 45 minute drive without traffic - a condition we know never exists in the metro NYC area, so add another 15-30 minutes to that. And getting back and forth late night on public transportation is an adventure to say the least. Parts of Bergen like them are too far of a commute for people like me and my wife, whose professional and social lives revolve around NYC.
Exactly. We're just seeing typical North BC attitude. How can we actually choose to live in the squalor that is South BC. Our kids are doomed to fail in life because they don't go to Tenafly high or wear nothing but couture.
Exactly. We're just seeing typical North BC attitude. How can we actually choose to live in the squalor that is South BC. Our kids are doomed to fail in life because they don't go to Tenafly high or wear nothing but couture.
Well, I wouldn't go that far, as I don't think that was the point he was making. There's no debating that south Bergen isn't as tony as the north, and in most cases the schools are inferior. But where you choose to live really all depends what you want. And everyone's wants are different. I don't care how tony a town is if living there means a 1+ hour commute to get to and from work and I can't easily get home at night from the city.
Some people want a neighborhood of huge expensive homes and huge heavily wooded lots that are not close to each other - I get that. Nothing wrong with it. But that isn't what my family wanted. My wife was born and raised in NYC. I had lived in Hoboken for 19 years prior. We are city people. Yet we needed the space of a single family home and better schools for our growing family. So where could we go that is a compromise between urban and suburban living? What area gets us into Manhattan in 40 minutes or less, has good schools, wouldn't have a huge property requiring a lot of upkeep, is walkable to a train, stores and restaurants, and we could get into a large newly constructed house for under a million dollars? These are the factors that determined our south Bergen choice. As admittedly much nicer as places like Ridgewood, Ho-Ho-Kus, or Upper Saddle River are compared to south Bergen, they simply do not offer the lifestyle we sought. So how nice they are is irrelevant to us. Our home budget was up to $850k. So we didn't choose south Bergen because we couldn't afford the north. We simply didn't want to live the lifestyle north Bergen offers. Nice place to visit though!
I do not dispute these facts. Bergen has a huge discrepancy between the southern and northern parts of the county, and I'm guessing Monmouth has something similar of inland and shore towns.
Monmouth has the bayshore towns like Keansburg and Union Beach, too. Not affluent places.
One my roommates in college was from Alpine NJ and he was insanely rich and had a Bentley and a Ferrari even being in college, never been to that town but I heard it's super nice.
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