Camden, NJ (Trenton, Burlington: low income, home, school district)

[MoorestownResident]

Originally Posted by rainrock

The area of Philadelphia directly across the river from Camden is very nice. Philaldephia has its warts but there is $10 B dollars of construction going on in Center City University City Philly, 1/4 mile west of Camden. Camden should be tagging along much much better than it is.

All of Camdens development has been with Cooper Hospital and Rutgers camden and poaching on Philadlephias tourism market. Camden wisely built a few tourist attractions that Philadlephia dropped the ball on e.g., Aquarium, indoor outdoor amphitheater, minor league ballpark.But as far as bringing that city out of the stone age? Nothing. Grabs a few tourism dollars and thats it.


Philadlephia questions what the hell is going on with NJ's lack of committment to turning Camden around. There was recently a big rift between PA and NJ regarding NJ not wanting to help deepen the Delaware River which would have meant increased port activity for Philadlephia and Camden. The thought process is that NJ is stonewalling helping Philadelphias ports and protecting the port operation in NY /North jersey. In short Philadelphia has a wary eye on whether the power base of northern NJ has any interest in turning Camden around as it acts as a buffer and protection for NOrth Jersey/NYC.

Ths is Washington West,Queen Village,Bella Vista. Directly across the river is downtown Camden.Its not like Camden is surrounded by blight and is hopeless cause. There are some very nice south jersey suburbs to the east and one of the best 100,000 person urban neighborhoods in the country to its west.The condition of Camden is a disgrace given its location.

The condition of much of Philly outside of center city is a bigger disgrace given its location and stature of the 4th largest metro area. Camden is a city of roughly 80,000 residents. The state of NJ and private interests are spending $3B on revitalization. Camden is a direct result of the mess in the Philly hoods, it was once a thriving city with a proud industrial history and growth prospects in the day when Moorestown resident RCA Victor ran RCA in the Nipper Building - now being renovated into luxury lofts. The problems started when people fled the blighted areas of Philly and set up shop across the river. Slowly but surely, industry relocated elsewhere and took high paying jobs with it. Sure the decline in the manufacturing industry was a primary cause but after that conditions were not conducive to growth of the white collar industry.

[Jerseyt719]

Originally Posted by NatasNJ

Everytime I drive through Camden I am amazed at the amount of jaywalking that occurs and how people down here REFUSE to go to corners to cross the street. Causes so much traffic. And there is also this behavior of people just stopping in their lane to do whatever without ever thinking about people behind them. It is whack.

AND just like in Newark, they walk REEAALLYY slow, just daring you to hit them, staring at you the whole way.

Hmmmm, wonder if they're really daring you or sizing you up now that I think about it.

[rainrock]

Originally Posted by MoorestownResident

The condition of much of Philly outside of center city is a bigger disgrace given its location.

Blame Philadlephias problem areas on Philadelphia. Blame Camdens problems on New Jersey.

If anything you should be praising Philadephia for South Jerseys growth. Haddonfield,Moorestown,Swedesboro,Woolwich,Marlton ,Voorhees,Cherry Hill,Woodbury Heights,Washington Township etc etc. Those suburbs are a direct result of white flight out of Philadelphia.

On the otherhand Camden has been around forever, its as old as Philadlephia is. Its responsible for its own highs and lows through its life cycle. Trenton and North Jerseys biasness or lack of concern for South jersey is ultimately responsible for Camdens demise. Your own state govt could care less about Camden, thats not Philadelphias fault.

There is 50 M sq. ft of office space,100,000 college students,1/2 million midlle class upper middle class people living directly across the river from Camden.

Old cities like Camden and Philadlephia decline thats just the way it is.
50 years ago Queen Village,Soceity Hill,University City was in the same boat that Camden is in today but Philadlephia and PA spent hundreds of billions of dollars into reclamating those neighborhoods and they are outstanding urban neighborhoods today. In the same time frame New Jersey continued to let Camden decay and die.

[BPP1999]

[quote=MoorestownResident;6612739]The problems started when people fled the blighted areas of Philly and set up shop across the river.
[quote]



Your anti-PA vibe continues to perplex me. It's almost as if PA somehow wronged you.

Here's a quote right from Wikipedia. I'm not saying Wikipedia is the ultimate source for history, but read this:

"At Camden's peak, 10,000 workers were employed at RCA, while another 40,000 worked at New York Shipbuilding. RCA had 23 out of 25 of its factories inside Camden. Campbell Soup was also a major employer. By 1969, Camden had been losing jobs and residents for a quarter century due in large part to urban decay, highway construction, and racial tensions."


Camden was an industrial city. Industry fled. Camden suffered. How can you blame Philadelphia? Maybe high corporate taxes, belligerent unions, outdated facilities, corrupt local leadership, and indifferent NJ state leadership that doomed Camden? In PA, these same factors helped to kill Philadelphia's industries as well.

Can you show migratory patterns of poor people moving from Philadelphia to Camden?

[stevemorse]

Originally Posted by rainrock

Blame Philadlephias problem areas on Philadelphia. Blame Camdens problems on New Jersey.

If anything you should be praising Philadephia for South Jerseys growth. Haddonfield,Moorestown,Swedesboro,Woolwich,Marlton ,Voorhees,Cherry Hill,Woodbury Heights,Washington Township etc etc. Those suburbs are a direct result of white flight out of Philadelphia.

On the otherhand Camden has been around forever, its as old as Philadlephia is. Its responsible for its own highs and lows through its life cycle. Trenton and North Jerseys biasness or lack of concern for South jersey is ultimately responsible for Camdens demise. Your own state govt could care less about Camden, thats not Philadelphias fault.

There is 50 M sq. ft of office space,100,000 college students,1/2 million midlle class upper middle class people living directly across the river from Camden.

Old cities like Camden and Philadlephia decline thats just the way it is.
50 years ago Queen Village,Soceity Hill,University City was in the same boat that Camden is in today but Philadlephia and PA spent hundreds of billions of dollars into reclamating those neighborhoods and they are outstanding urban neighborhoods today. In the same time frame New Jersey continued to let Camden decay and die.

this logic of the white flight makes total sense!! Very good points.

[MoorestownResident]

[quote=BPP1999;6613787][quote=MoorestownResident;6612739]The problems started when people fled the blighted areas of Philly and set up shop across the river.

Your anti-PA vibe continues to perplex me. It's almost as if PA somehow wronged you.

Here's a quote right from Wikipedia. I'm not saying Wikipedia is the ultimate source for history, but read this:

"At Camden's peak, 10,000 workers were employed at RCA, while another 40,000 worked at New York Shipbuilding. RCA had 23 out of 25 of its factories inside Camden. Campbell Soup was also a major employer. By 1969, Camden had been losing jobs and residents for a quarter century due in large part to urban decay, highway construction, and racial tensions."


Camden was an industrial city. Industry fled. Camden suffered. How can you blame Philadelphia? Maybe high corporate taxes, belligerent unions, outdated facilities, corrupt local leadership, and indifferent NJ state leadership that doomed Camden? In PA, these same factors helped to kill Philadelphia's industries as well.

Can you show migratory patterns of poor people moving from Philadelphia to Camden?

I'm talking about before 1969. The racial riots of 1971 exacerbated the flight of middle class out of Camden. I'm not saying NJ is not to blame for not investing in Camden sooner, but the problems in Philly and Camden are related. That's all I'm saying. They are not islands across the Delaware, they are related.

[BPP1999]

[quote=MoorestownResident;6615593][quote=BPP1999;6613787]

Originally Posted by MoorestownResident

The problems started when people fled the blighted areas of Philly and set up shop across the river.


I'm talking about before 1969. The racial riots of 1971 exacerbated the flight of middle class out of Camden. I'm not saying NJ is not to blame for not investing in Camden sooner, but the problems in Philly and Camden are related. That's all I'm saying. They are not islands across the Delaware, they are related.

I agree; they are related. I've said before that if Philadelphia took off from a job creation standpoint, Camden would benefit, much the way Jersey City has benefited from NYC.

[cantonrep1969]

Originally Posted by wwalden1

What sort of city is Camden, NJ?

Camden is a town that I grew up in. It sits across the river from Philadelphia, and of course if you did not grow up in Camden, you will think the worst of it. It's got its moments and lots of memories. Now as an adult, I would not raise my sons there, because it has become a very dangerous place. But that's cause people don't care and so they let things go and get bad. I moved away along time ago, but I do occasionally go back for a cheese steak from Tony and Ruthy's in North Camden or the ever famous Panzarotti in East Camden. Camden has it's good history and bad, just depends who's looking at it.

[cantonrep1969]

What sort of city is Camden? It's run down in some parts, its drug ridden, and crime runs crazy there. No it's not the best or cheapest place to live, even around the campus. But even after it is all of the above, it's still alot more to those who grew up there. Its where I was first kissed, it's where I had my first Panzarotti, it's where I met my first love and found my broken heart. The list goes on and on, but most of all it's where my brother is buried, and for the rest of America, it might be on the top 5 whatever list, but for me, it's much more......

[Spyder856]

Camden is what they say it is so stay the hell out of here......OK
C.M.D