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Yes, except housing in the "bad" school districts in NJ is as expensive as housing in the "average" school districts in PA.
Income tax will be lower in PA unless you're living in the city, or you're earning under 35k.
Car insurance is cheaper, I pay about 30% less, much like housing which is also about 1/3 cheaper here.
Driving costs depend on where you work, but if you have the flexibility to choose where you live, why should it cost a fortune ? My commute to work is about 3.5 miles. I could choose to walk or run it and/or live closer to work if I was really concerned about driving costs. I have the option of taking the train if I want to go out into the city, much like I more or less had to do in the NY metro area.
Whether or not your salary would be lower depends on what job you're able to land, I guess. If you're able to land a job with comparable pay, it's a no-brainer.
sure, if you get a job with comparable pay. but my point was that most can't or don't. also - if you lose your job and get a new job, there goes you're 3.5 mile commute. in the NYC area, almost everyone is commuting to the same couple of places, so the transit system caters to that. Philly is awesome, I love it, don't get me wrong, but it's different.
My sister's and BIL's car insurance is more expensive than mine. I had a friend move from West Chester, PA to NJ, and his rates dropped. I'm sure it depends on the vehicles, but in his case, it was a sports car, and it got cheaper in NJ. I was surprised, but some areas in philly are horrible for car insurance.
my sister's townhome was somewhere around $280,000. a similar one, depending on the town in NJ, would be about $400-$500k, certainly wouldn't be $840,000, so maybe some housing is 1/3 cheaper, but not all. Condos in downtown philly aren't exactly cheap either (unless you'd like to sacrafrice safety).
i'm not here to knock on philly specifically, i'm just saying, every area has it's own costs to deal with. if you live near philly and want a comparable salary and that takes you into the city, now you get to pay the city tax also. NJ income tax and PA income taxes aren't that drastically different, but in PA you also have your local income tax - unless they got rid of that. point is, the costs aren't as drastic as people always make them out to be...
Property taxes will just be one part of the COL equation if you move back. For instance, if you're making $20,000 more doing the same type of work you're doing in the south, you may actually come out ahead financially.
I left NJ for Vermont eight years ago. I pay lower property taxes on a house I built on 2.5 acres with amazing views than I did on a 100-year-old fixer upper on a 50 by 100-foot lot. But I also took a considerable pay cut.
For me, it's worked out. I'm much happier here although I miss my family and friends in N.J. and the proximety to NYC, the ethnic food and diverse population, etc.
I think your decision should be based on which state feels more like home to you. Where would you be happiest spending the rest of your life, whether comfortable financially or struggling a bit?
sure, if you get a job with comparable pay. but my point was that most can't or don't. also - if you lose your job and get a new job, there goes you're 3.5 mile commute. in the NYC area, almost everyone is commuting to the same couple of places, so the transit system caters to that.
Almost everyone is commuting to somewhere in Manhattan, from somewhere near a station. That makes for long multi-leg commutes.
Obviously it's true that my short commute goes if I lose my job. If that happened, I would relocate to wherever I found my next job (which might or might not be in PA)
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my sister's townhome was somewhere around $280,000. a similar one, depending on the town in NJ, would be about $400-$500k, certainly wouldn't be $840,000, so maybe some housing is 1/3 cheaper, but not all.
What I meant was, the place you buy for 280k in Philly metro will cost you more like 420k in NY metro. So I don't think we disagree on this point.
The incomes are not as much lower as you suggest. I'm looking at the "housing opportunity index" numbers, and I see:
Philadelphia metro: median income 75k, median price 250k, HOI index 63
New York-White Plains-Wayne, NY-NJ: median income 65k median price 426K, HOI index: 20
Newark-Union, NJ-PA median income 89K median price 300k HOI index 61
Nassau-Suffolk, NY: median income 102k median price 375k HOI index 56
These numbers represent substantial upticks in affordability in NJ in Q1 2010 -- affordability numbers for previous quarters were much lower (both under 50%). Also, not the more affordable of the three NY metro regions includes large chunks of towns that are outside the NY metro. The index for New York-White Plains-Wayne, NY-NJ is the most representative of the state of the market for Manhattan commuters.
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i'm not here to knock on philly specifically, i'm just saying, every area has it's own costs to deal with. if you live near philly and want a comparable salary and that takes you into the city, now you get to pay the city tax also. NJ income tax and PA income taxes aren't that drastically different,
I see what you mean now. Yes, I agree that the tax picture changes if you're working in the city. You'll pay 4.25-5% in aggregate in NJ if your income is 100-150k compared to flat 3%. So you would get slightly higher income tax, but also much lower property taxes.
Sounds like majority moved to NC. Also sounds like NC its total country living. Maybe if you went somewhere halfway in between country and city you would have had better time.
Agreed. Seems like a lot of people who complain moved to either NC or NEPA/Scranton.
There are pretty much no good jobs in NEPA and I imagine NC would be a major culture shock.
I think the guy who moved to Maryland has the right idea. Philly area, Maryland, Delaware, all have relatively low housing/taxes. Similar salaries, culture/attitudes, access to shopping/cities, etc. Plus if you live in one of these places you can come up for a weekend easily (weddings, holidays, family functions, parties, etc)
Agreed. Seems like a lot of people who complain moved to either NC or NEPA/Scranton.
There are pretty much no good jobs in NEPA and I imagine NC would be a major culture shock.
I think the guy who moved to Maryland has the right idea. Philly area, Maryland, Delaware, all have relatively low housing/taxes. Similar salaries, culture/attitudes, access to shopping/cities, etc. Plus if you live in one of these places you can come up for a weekend easily (weddings, holidays, family functions, parties, etc)
That's how I see it, exactly.
When I think of places to where I'd be willing to relocate, I do not want NC - no matter what, it is too different and has less of what I want. Even now that I have several friends in the Raleigh area, which makes it more attractive, I'd really avoid moving there at all costs. NEPA at least is close to NJ, but realistically I probably wouldn't be able to commute to most of NNJ or NYC so I'd be limited to their job market, which is not nearly as good.
But I like the idea of the Mid-Atlantic from South Jersey down through Delaware and MD and into No. VA. I think South Jersey is the best option as I'd be close to my family in NNJ but also close to Philly and/or the Jersey Shore (the best part of it - the southern part, AC, Margate, Ocean City, Ventnor, Stone Harbor, etc.).
NC and NEPA are a lot cheaper than South Jersey, MD, DE, NoVA but the latter are worth a little more money due to the conveniences and location and proximity to the big cities and jobs (with good salaries), and they are still less than NNJ. Also, the culture is very similar to what we are used to, moreso than NEPA or especially NC.
I love reading all these post and one thing I come up with is most people like the relative safety of NJ and NJ schools. I wonder how taxes would be related to those two things????? You want something??? Well then you have to pay for it. I'm sorry to say Utopia does not exist.
I love reading all these post and one thing I come up with is most people like the relative safety of NJ and NJ schools. I wonder how taxes would be related to those two things????? You want something??? Well then you have to pay for it. I'm sorry to say Utopia does not exist.
No, it doesn't but you also don't have to pay the NJ tax rates just to get safe living and good schools- you do, however, have to do some research. The town we live in has lower crime rates than the town we left behind, and the schools are better as well (based on test scores, academic programs offered, non-academic programs, etc). Blanket statements regarding entire states or even metropolitan areas aren't very accurate.
It's a stable comfortable life. Money is more tight, hence lifestyle is less consumption oriented. Health is free, education is good and cheap. University is cheap (heavily subsidized). Taxes are low.
Negatives?
As an visible minority, there is a cap on career growth.
Financial upsides are limited, as society isn't as consumption oriented.
Income tax and sales tax is crazy high.
People are not as open and friendly, culture is more reserved.
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