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If you got the money and can invest in your children, get them into Harvard, MIT. It's worth it. The chances of them becoming multi-millionaires are much greater.
I was wondering why private schools like MKS, Morristown Beard, Delbarton, Oak Knoll, Kent etc. have so much pricing power, with tuitions nearly the same as the most expensive academies in Manhattan.
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Originally Posted by Forest_Hills_Daddy
NYC does not have as many "good" open/zoned admissions public schools as NJ. You would need to go through the magnet and specialized school process so fewer public options helps drive demand and high tuitions for private schools there.
An elite prep school is an elite prep school whether it's in Manhattan or New Jersey or New Hampshire or Virginia. They all feature luxury amenities like multi-million dollar Olympic size pools, libraries, science centers, indoor ice rinks, etc. etc.
And I don't think the abundance (or lack) of good public schools in the vicinity factors in to the demand for private schools (and therefore the tuition). Admissions into a private school are very limited and highly competitive. I would even say cut throat. Private school class sizes (according to the NYT article) are between 7-15 students. The demand (among the cream of the crop who would be looking into elite prep schools) is always going to be high whether we're talking about Manhattan or NJ. Private schools in NJ are "turning away far more students than in the past".
As for the reasons why the wealthy who live in good school districts send their kids to private schools, the NYT article in the OP lists a bunch:
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The beauty of a private school, she said, is the range of choices: ''Things most public schools can't afford to provide. And facilities to support the curriculum.''
For her older son, that meant lots of math and science. For her daughter, it meant art classes that were given as much weight as calculus. For her younger son, it meant a program that included drama classes that let him express his creative, nontraditional side.
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Private schools, Mr. Murphy said, have the benefit of selecting students who almost certainly would have achieved well anywhere -- ''creaming,'' as some public schools contend. And they are backed with large donations and endowments like the $100 million gift to the Peddie School by Walter Annenberg, a former publisher and Ambassador to England who graduated from the school outside Princeton.
Nonetheless, Keith Neigel, the principal of Millburn High School in Essex County, rated among the best public high schools in the state, said, ''The top band of students in the good public schools is equally competitive with private schools.''
Indeed, the top 10 to 30 percent of Millburn graduates attend competitive colleges that include Ivy League institutions as well as Amherst, Stanford, Tufts, Georgetown and Duke. The 1998 graduating class averaged a combined total of 1400 on their SAT's.
Interestingly, Mr. Neigel's two sons went on to Delbarton after attending public schools from kindergarten through the eighth grade. He said that he left the decision to them. ''They just liked what the school had to offer in terms of athletics, community service and activities and decided to go there,'' the Millburn principal said.
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The benefit to costs like these: The schools' reputations as feeders to the Ivy League and other so-called designer colleges.
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Another factor in the choice of private school over public is class size. In private schools, class size ranges from 7 to 15 students as against at least 20 to 25 students in the public schools. With that ratio comes more personal attention from teachers, innovative curriculums and a feeling among parents that their children are spared much of the violence found in public high schools today.
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Another attraction of the private schools is their extras: a $3 million indoor ice rink and poet-in-residence program at Princeton Day School; laptop computers issued to all students at the Peddie School; a multimillion-dollar arts complex at Blair; an international baccalaureate diploma program at Newark Academy; senior independent research projects at Dwight-Englewood; four years of required science courses at Stuart Country Day for the Sacred Heart; multimillion-dollar libraries and academic buildings and, in some cases, campuses that surpass the size and resources of many colleges.
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Many of these prep schools have cultivated relationships with the families of political leaders, business executives, Hollywood celebrities and Olympians. Eddie Murphy and Patrick Ewing, for instance, both send their children to Dwight-Englewood, whose alumni include former Secretary of State George P. Schultz as well as the actresses Brooke Shields and Mira Sorvino. Jack Bogle, the senior chairman of the Vanguard group of mutual funds, attended Blair while Thomas J. Watson, the president of I.B.M., went to the Hun School.
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He is quick to point out that because of Lawrenceville's proximity to Princeton, the school can call on such speakers as the poet laureate Robert Pinsky and the historian Sean Wilentz.
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Joe Zullo, a sophomore at Lawrenceville, was lured from his public high school in Bridgewater by the chance to have what he said was a more challenging academic experience and to take advantage of Lawrenceville's $14 million science center. In addition, Lawrenceville is his father's alma mater.
So, in short:
-more tailored, customizable curriculums
-luxury/premium facilities
-"creaming" and prestige
-access/proximity to powerful business, political and other connections
-plain ol' family tradition
I think many of the parents who send their kids to private live in diverse area's like Montclair or Morristown, but do not want their kids going to school with the kids who do not need to use sunblock in the summer.
I suspect this is true to a degree.
But interestingly, the article says the following:
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In addition, some parents, like Ms. Corrente, say they are seeking greater diversity than can be found in the homogeneous student bodies of many affluent areas.
Diversity, however, can be different things to different parents. For some, it means a significant pool of students from varied ethnic and racial backgrounds. For others, diversity might mean a collection of students from around the country and even around the world.
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Jennifer Christenson, 18, said the opportunity to be around a diverse group of students and a more flexible environment led her to leave the Spence School in Manhattan for Lawrenceville. ''Spence was very homogenized; the same 40 girls who looked and sounded the same,'' Ms. Christenson said. ''You learn so much here from the diversity. There are kids from other parts of the country and the world.''
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Erasing the Image Of Elite Bastions
PRIVATE schools say they are working toward erasing their images as the schools of the elite. Many have placed a premium on recruiting minority students and make a point of telling prospective students and parents about their ethnic, racial and cultural diversity.
Most private schools in the state have increased the amount of financial aid for minority students. For instance, a large portion of the $100 million donated to the Peddie School by one of its most famous alumni, Walter Annenberg, is earmarked toward helping diversify the student body.
Last year, the heads of Stuart Country Day School of the Sacred Heart, Princeton Day School and The Hun School, all in Princeton, hired a ''diversity coordinator'' to broaden the student body and to help address issues facing minority students.
How diverse the schools are, however, and how diversity is defined, depends on ones point of view. For most, diversity means increases in the number of black, Hispanic and Asian students.
For Ambika Kapoor, a senior at Peddie, diversity also meant encountering students from other cultures. ''She has a chance to meet students she may not have met staying in the public school'' in West Windsor, said Poonam Kapoor, Ambika's mother.
The schools rely on four major organizations to send them prospective minority students: Scholars Educator Excellence Dedicated Success, better known as SEEDS; Prep for Prep; A Better Chance; and the Albert G. Oliver program.
Many of the black and Hispanic students at the Dwight-Englewood School in Bergen County, for instance, come through the state's SEEDS program from such cities as Paterson, Jersey City, Union City and West New York. About 20 percent of the students at Dwight-Englewood are Asian and 15 percent are either black or Hispanic.
Diversity also has meant re-examining the curricula. Lawrenceville, which has drawn students from 38 states and 16 countries, offers a course called ''The American Dream'' that reviews the history and experiences of African Americans, Asian Americans and Hispanic Americans.
If you got the money and can invest in your children, get them into Harvard, MIT. It's worth it. The chances of them becoming multi-millionaires are much greater.
There is lots of fun stuff in the article. You just need to remember, even with the so called high standards to get accepted, they all have a price. If your parents can write a check (beyond the tuition), you can go to one of these schools. As for the "diversity", you have rich people who can pay the bill and poor people on scholarship. There are very few students from the "middle" class.
In NJ's top 150 high schools you can find everything you can find in the privates for just the cost of your property tax. Unfortunately, your child might have to come in contact with other students that do not meet your approval.
If you got the money and can invest in your children, get them into Harvard, MIT. It's worth it. The chances of them becoming multi-millionaires are much greater.
I'd disagree with this. Everyone I know in both of those schools went to public schools, some even left private schools to go to publics before going to Ivy League schools. The interesting thing about top schools is that they get great people to do the interviews. Great people who look past the previous schools and actually find interesting students who will bring interesting things to the universities, not just a bunch of prep students.
In great universities the students are more important than their previous schools.
I'd disagree with this. Everyone I know in both of those schools went to public schools, some even left private schools to go to publics before going to Ivy League schools. The interesting thing about top schools is that they get great people to do the interviews. Great people who look past the previous schools and actually find interesting students who will bring interesting things to the universities, not just a bunch of prep students.
In great universities the students are more important than their previous schools.
While I agree with your last line and your overall emphasis on the individual....
I've seen stats that show that at least a third of ivy league students come from private high schools, so I'm a bit surprised that doesn't reflect your experience.
And many of the top prep schools will have 20% to 30% of their students admitted to ivy league schools, which is far in excess of just about any public school. Again, I agree that it's no guarantee of admission (or good people). Just as a Harvard degree doesn't guarantee anything. But in both cases, it sure as heck doesn't hurt.
An elite prep school is an elite prep school whether it's in Manhattan or New Jersey or New Hampshire or Virginia. They all feature luxury amenities like multi-million dollar Olympic size pools, libraries, science centers, indoor ice rinks, etc. etc.
And I don't think the abundance (or lack) of good public schools in the vicinity factors in to the demand for private schools (and therefore the tuition).
Maybe. But in NYC, there are very visible financial tradeoffs by making this decision. In NYC, it's very common for middle, upper middle, and even upper income (not upper assets) families going the private route to settle for more modest apartment dwellings, or raise only one child. Not sure if there are any visible signs of such compromises being made in NJ. It looks like the residents in Union and Morris counties still live pleasant-looking homes - no visible impact to lifestyles.
While I agree with your last line and your overall emphasis on the individual....
I've seen stats that show that at least a third of ivy league students come from private high schools, so I'm a bit surprised that doesn't reflect your experience.
I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that I don't work in finance, where the majority of the prep school to Ivy kids end up. Add the fact that a lot of Ivy students are also legacies, where it's twice as likely that they'll get in, and that the family has likely always gone to prep school as well and it's easy to see why the prep-Ivy connection exists.
But, if you're not a legacy, does prep school still make as much sense?
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