Maplewood and South Orange (Millburn, Chatham: reasons)

[veuvegirl]

Originally Posted by halfoffpeak

I said taxes rose "as prices did" not "because prices did". However, one can make the case that taxes went up with the consent of residents, who felt wealthier, than what they are now, when their house price was bubbling up. I am sure many of the residents of those towns (and other towns) regret accepting irresponsible budget increases.

No offense, but that is an incredibly ignorant remark. No one wanted the taxes to rise the way they did in Maplewood/SO. It is a wonderful area to live, one that I really love and miss. Sadly, the rising taxes drove us away. All over NJ the taxes are crazy. Maplewood/SO gets hit very hard, because they are in the same county as Irvington and Newark, thus having to pay more to support towns that cannot pay as much. There is no commercial property in these areas to help the tax burden of the residence.

[clevedark]

Originally Posted by halfoffpeak

Do you mean to say that school budget accounts for more than 50%? Even so school budget can be limited if things don't look that good, as it did this year. Look here

Maplewood Cutting Police Officer and Firefighter Jobs - The Local - Maplewood Blog - NYTimes.com

Whatever the problem is it should have been addressed much earlier but I think that there was no need of urgency as housing prices rose.

Perhaps focusing on Maplewood Sorange is wrong, one can argue similarly for many towns in NJ. It is just that in nearby towns (Millburn, Summit, Chatham) where median income is higher taxes are much lower for the same house and better school.

The last time I checked, I think the school budget was 60% of taxes in Maplewood.

And again, housing prices have nothing to do with property taxes!!! The only relationship there is between the two is the taxation rate. The town doesn't care about property value--only that it gets enough from homeowners to meet their monthly nut.

High property taxes in Maplewood and South Orange (and Montclair, too) is nothing new.

The town is popular with younger homeowners who work at reasonable well paying jobs, but not so high paying that it would be easy for them to gather a downpayment for a similar quality/size house in Millburn, Chatham, or other towns along the Midtown Direct train line.

The housing prices are low in relation to those towns because of the high taxes. Nobody is being bamboozled here.

[halfoffpeak]

Originally Posted by veuvegirl

Maplewood/SO gets hit very hard, because they are in the same county as Irvington and Newark, thus having to pay more to support towns that cannot pay as much. There is no commercial property in these areas to help the tax burden of the residence.

Ok maybe what I said is incredibly ignorant, but what you describe was also true in 2000 and the towns could function with half a tax then. Maybe someone can explain the 100%, instead of the 20% inflation related, tax rise.

Originally Posted by clevedark

The housing prices are low in relation to those towns because of the high taxes. Nobody is being bamboozled here.

OK that's the point, in order to create value, house prices should get much lower to compensate for taxes and schools. Last time I looked -3-4 months ago- houses were overpriced. This home ownership model, low house prices high taxes, feels like renting (where "rent" rises fast) so maybe that's my "bashing".

[clevedark]

Well, maybe when you looked at the prices you didn't compare them to neighboring towns on the Midtown Direct line, which is what actual buyers tend to do.

[veuvegirl]

clevedark-- the reason the taxes rose so drastically in Maplewood/SO was because there was no re-evaluation done on any of the homes for over twenty years. It was a very stupid action on the towns part, and sadly the residence suffered.

Maplewood/SO went through a huge increase in property once the Midtown Direct was complete. In addition there were several articles printed in many magazines naming Maplewood the #1 place to live as a suburb of NYC. The housing stock was practically non-existant at that time. So people coming in to check out the town, would find a house and go into bidding wars to get the house they wanted.

When you compare Millburn/Summit house prices to Maplewood/SO, you can see why so many people chose Maplewood/SO, more bang for your buck. Sadly the taxes are crazy, and this compiled with the economy is why prices are plummeting IMO.

[halfoffpeak]

Originally Posted by clevedark

Well, maybe when you looked at the prices you didn't compare them to neighboring towns on the Midtown Direct line, which is what actual buyers tend to do.

What I do/did bears no significance to this thread but since you mentioned:

1) you are right I am not an "actual" buyer, despite the correction prices are inflated everywhere and decided to withhold buying until prices return to historical norms.

2) I DID look at the neighboring towns and they seem to me fiscally more sound, with better schools, and less crime. But they are overpriced too.

[topster7]

The OP asked about the desireabilty of the area. And though it's been over 30 years since I left, I still remember both towns as beautiful, safe communities. As I kid, I had the impression only "rich people" lived there. Our Dad's heart Doctor held office visits in a home office in Maplewood. We drove past Columbia High School to get there. What a beautiful building! Even the adjacent part of Orange, (I think it was called 7 Oaks), was affluent. It bordered on Orange Park; a jewel for that city.

As a young boy in the late 1950's, early 1960's, our parents would sometimes take us to a park in South Orange to go sledding. As you turned onto South Orange Avenue and headed towards the Erie Lackawanna overpass, it was off to the right. Don't remember the name of the park anymore. I had hours of fun there. None of the parks in East Orange had a suitable hill. (But Soveral Field in East Orange was STILL the best playground I've ever seen in 56 years of life).

[Orhudson]

Originally Posted by Onizuka

The area of Maplewood right around the downtown area is nice and walkable. The rest of town is not so nice and walkable. In fact, much of town is pretty crappy, especially where it borders on Newark and Irvington.

South Orange, same thing. The area right around downtown are nice and walkable. Everywhere else, especially where it borders on East Orange and Newark are not as nice.

Basically, in both towns, you'll find it to be nice as long as you're close to downtown. Otherwise, you'd be better off picking another town.

Are you kidding Onizuka?? I'm not sure I understand why you would say that Maplewood and South Orange are not walkable but for the downtown area -- so not true. The majority of each of these towns are safe and peaceful. Granted each one of them borders either Irvington, Newark and East Orange, however, once your in the town all quite safe and desirable. You need to get out and take a walk around town - - some of the nicest areas and neighborhoods in North Jersey.

[clevedark]

Originally Posted by halfoffpeak

What I do/did bears no significance to this thread but since you mentioned:

1) you are right I am not an "actual" buyer, despite the correction prices are inflated everywhere and decided to withhold buying until prices return to historical norms.

2) I DID look at the neighboring towns and they seem to me fiscally more sound, with better schools, and less crime. But they are overpriced too.

Well, if you're not an actually buyer, why the heck do you care and what is your judgement worth compared to, let's just say, an actual buyer????

I'm not a football fan and I would never spend time or money traveling to a big pro football game where I pay alot of money for a ticket and a hotel. Does that make the "true value" of the event zero because it's not something I want to buy?

[halfoffpeak]

Originally Posted by clevedark

Does that make the "true value" of the event zero because it's not something I want to buy?

Of course I want to buy, but not at those inflated prices. Many other would-be buyers decided not to buy, because housing is depreciating. Why should I buy a house now, say for $500K, if I could buy a similar one for $400K a year from now? Makes absolutely no sense.

People like me, "would like to buy but not now", actually determine prices at the moment, contrary to what you say. Sales are down and prices are down.

Going back to Maplewood, South Orange, don't listen to me. Listen what the residents of those towns say:

"I will never again live in a town which carries the burden of a huge non-tax-paying university or a county burdened by depressed inner cities which don't carry their own weight when it comes to taxes."

M/SO Community Forum - Why do people move to SO?


"I am concerned about the high property taxes in SO as well, but not sure what to do about it. We don't have better services or schools than other towns -- in fact, my street has so many potholes that it is basically rubble, I drop off my own recycling, pay for garbage, sewer, etc."

M/SO Community Forum - Why do people move to SO?

There are many other discussions in that forum about this years budget. A must read for the people looking to buy there.