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Old 03-29-2017, 08:08 PM
 
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As I have traveled throughout the state I noticed one thing. Blacks and whites are more integrated in South Jersey than in North Jersey. When I was in Burlington I saw whites and blacks interacting. I even saw whites and blacks interacting in Camden. However when I went to South Orange and Montclair, towns that are well known for their diversity, I never seen them interacting. In these towns, whites were with whites and blacks were with blacks. Why is this so?
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Old 03-29-2017, 08:31 PM
 
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Interesting.

I do agree that South Orange and Montclair are somewhat segregated.

I haven't spent time in South Jersey though.
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Old 03-29-2017, 08:55 PM
 
Location: NJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homenj View Post
As I have traveled throughout the state I noticed one thing. Blacks and whites are more integrated in South Jersey than in North Jersey. When I was in Burlington I saw whites and blacks interacting. I even saw whites and blacks interacting in Camden. However when I went to South Orange and Montclair, towns that are well known for their diversity, I never seen them interacting. In these towns, whites were with whites and blacks were with blacks. Why is this so?
Better take a 2nd trip and re evaluate your conclusion.
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Old 03-30-2017, 08:04 AM
 
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In the south there is more space and the cost of living in generally cheaper.
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Old 03-30-2017, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
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Also, historically there have always been more black people in the southern part of the state, going back to slave days. Of course there were slaves in the northern half of the state, too, but the bigger farms needing more labor were in South Jersey. In the northern part of the state, you have more black people who moved to the industrial areas from other states down south a generation or two ago.

The point is that both the black and white families likely have been on South Jersey for a longer time, know one another, and have had more time to establish mixed communities.

Just speculation on my part, though.
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Old 03-30-2017, 11:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Also, historically there have always been more black people in the southern part of the state, going back to slave days. Of course there were slaves in the northern half of the state, too, but the bigger farms needing more labor were in South Jersey. In the northern part of the state, you have more black people who moved to the industrial areas from other states down south a generation or two ago.

The point is that both the black and white families likely have been on South Jersey for a longer time, know one another, and have had more time to establish mixed communities.

Just speculation on my part, though.
I don't think that's it. Remember, back in the days of slavery, most of North Jersey was farms as well. And actually due to the Quaker presence in South Jersey, slavery was not as profound as it was in North Jersey.

Tons of blacks moved both to South Jersey and North Jersey during the Great Migration. Industry and manufacturing was big in Philadelphia's sphere of influence as well. I don't think either the history of slavery and the Great Migration are contributors to the alleged greater integration in South Jersey.

In fact, I don't really buy into the notion at all that South Jersey is more integrated. South Jersey has more than its fair share of black ghettos (and I don't mean to use the term ghetto in a disparaging way here) as well as plenty of lily white towns. Even towns that are somewhat more proportionally mixed, the blacks tend to be clustered in specific areas. I lived in a town and went to schools that were reasonably diverse. And I observed in my schools that, although some students crossed racial lines, there were definitely significant factions where most of the black kids ate lunch with each other and no white kids, and vice versa. Same could be said for the Asian and Indian kids as well, although to a lesser extent. It wasn't too rare to see the blacks co-mingling with the Latinos.
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Old 03-30-2017, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
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Originally Posted by Leps12 View Post
I don't think that's it. Remember, back in the days of slavery, most of North Jersey was farms as well. And actually due to the Quaker presence in South Jersey, slavery was not as profound as it was in North Jersey.

Tons of blacks moved both to South Jersey and North Jersey during the Great Migration. Industry and manufacturing was big in Philadelphia's sphere of influence as well. I don't think either the history of slavery and the Great Migration are contributors to the alleged greater integration in South Jersey.

In fact, I don't really buy into the notion at all that South Jersey is more integrated. South Jersey has more than its fair share of black ghettos (and I don't mean to use the term ghetto in a disparaging way here) as well as plenty of lily white towns. Even towns that are somewhat more proportionally mixed, the blacks tend to be clustered in specific areas. I lived in a town and went to schools that were reasonably diverse. And I observed in my schools that, although some students crossed racial lines, there were definitely significant factions where most of the black kids ate lunch with each other and no white kids, and vice versa. Same could be said for the Asian and Indian kids as well, although to a lesser extent. It wasn't too rare to see the blacks co-mingling with the Latinos.
Actually, I don't personally know if South Jersey IS more integrated, either--just going by the premise of the thread. But it is factual that there were more slaves in South Jersey, at least at one point. The number 3,000 is in my head. I would have to go back and look it up. I have an interest in NJ history and slavery/abolitionists, and so I've read quite a bit.

My own AA brother-in-law comes from a central Jersey family that seems to have been here since before the Civil War, but we can't trace them to slavery. Although there were still slaves leftover from before the gradual abolition laws in NJ at the time of the Civil War, it was nowhere near what it had been. Jersey's interest in keeping slavery hopping in the south had more to do with the fact that Newark manufactured cheap clothing and shoes that they sold to the southern plantations for their slaves.

As a point of history, NJ's first slaves were indeed in North Jersey. A man by the name of John Berry was given a land grant and brought up a bunch of his slaves from Barbados; hence, the name New Barbados for the area that now includes Hackensack.

And Berry's Creek, which runs along near Teterboro Airport, was named for him. It's a huge Superfund site. Beautiful place, and bigly toxic. Highest concentration of mercury in fresh water in the world. Go Jersey.
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Old 03-30-2017, 01:30 PM
 
Location: NJ/NY
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I think a lot of people on this forum spend a little time in a town without really getting to know it, and they see what they want to see. OP, I think you need to spend more time in these towns. I worked in Montclair for 10 years. I know the town very well, and I can tell you that your impression is very far off the mark. People in Montclair of all races and ethnicities socialize with each other all the time.
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Old 03-30-2017, 01:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Actually, I don't personally know if South Jersey IS more integrated, either--just going by the premise of the thread. But it is factual that there were more slaves in South Jersey, at least at one point. The number 3,000 is in my head. I would have to go back and look it up. I have an interest in NJ history and slavery/abolitionists, and so I've read quite a bit.

My own AA brother-in-law comes from a central Jersey family that seems to have been here since before the Civil War, but we can't trace them to slavery. Although there were still slaves leftover from before the gradual abolition laws in NJ at the time of the Civil War, it was nowhere near what it had been. Jersey's interest in keeping slavery hopping in the south had more to do with the fact that Newark manufactured cheap clothing and shoes that they sold to the southern plantations for their slaves.

As a point of history, NJ's first slaves were indeed in North Jersey. A man by the name of John Berry was given a land grant and brought up a bunch of his slaves from Barbados; hence, the name New Barbados for the area that now includes Hackensack.

And Berry's Creek, which runs along near Teterboro Airport, was named for him. It's a huge Superfund site. Beautiful place, and bigly toxic. Highest concentration of mercury in fresh water in the world. Go Jersey.
Just a friendly book recommendation (if you haven't already read it); James Gigantino's Ragged Road to Abolition is the current standard work on slavery and abolition in NJ. Basically argues that NJ resisted wholesale abolition because the state was so devastated by the Revolutionary War that no one in power wanted to shake things up, socially. Your point about Newark and its support for the Slave South is also important, beyond just selling shoes in the South, many northern industries also invested their profits in southern plantations and slave markets since these were booming sectors in the 1840s and 1850s. You really could not have had the birth of an industrial north without a slave south.
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Old 03-30-2017, 03:14 PM
 
Location: NJ
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Originally Posted by Jackal1 View Post
In the south there is more space and the cost of living in generally cheaper.
What does that have to do with blacks and whites interacting?
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