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Old Yesterday, 01:53 AM
 
Location: Northern NJ
6,067 posts, read 6,062,955 times
Reputation: 8598

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shet View Post
It's not silly for someone who does not look American.

We don't need new laws really. Implement the ones we have for e.g. E-Verify. No jobs no illegal immigration. Simple. Though it's difficult when people give somebody else's SSN. That defeats E-Verify.

But once they have been offered jobs and working, not fair in cutting off things like public schools which are paid either by property taxes or state aid i.e income tax. This will make US worse than even middle East countries. In fact downright hypocrisy i.e getting work done by them but not giving benefits. Either don't offer jobs or allow to avail of all benefits like schools and emergency care

Looks are irrelevant. Only legal vetted citizenship matters. So no one is going to be working here without citizenship. That can stop very easily. If you are not a citizen of this country, you should not be working here at all. Once we have that stopped, then it easily follows that there is no school, no driving, no banking, no functioning. And once that stops, very few people will attempt illegal criminal entry. If they can't work and they can't move, they will stay in their own countries, which is what we want.


Then we don't have to waste money on ICE raids and walls. Simple logic and a simple policy of inhibiting participation in our society without proper citizenship and proper vetting.
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Old Yesterday, 01:36 PM
 
227 posts, read 404,719 times
Reputation: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
Looks are irrelevant. Only legal vetted citizenship matters.
Yes, looks are irrelevant for 99% of law enforcement but what about that 1% who will ask for papers based on looks?

How will this vetted citizenship work say for somebody who wants to work with MacDonald or at a farm? What do you propose MacDonald or the farmnowner should do?

What does vetted citizenship mean anyway? Does that mean a separate Dept within DHS ?
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Old Yesterday, 01:59 PM
 
1,834 posts, read 1,012,676 times
Reputation: 1289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shet View Post
So what does ICE do if the person being stopped had not so good parents and whatever birth date was told to him wasn't really the right one? Probably even the name he grew up with is not the one given to hospital during birth. And he does not have the birth certificate or was born at home maybe. And let's say he is not a European white or African. What happens next?

Forget SSN and tax forms because not everybody earns enough to file taxes.
Sure, I'll play strawman. As long as you can tell me where someone can live off less than $10,350 a year. Because anything more and they have to file taxes.

So, if you have been using an incorrect name and DOB your entire life then you're going to have a lot of trouble. But are their parents names their names? Because those are on the birth certificate.

Home births apply for birth certificates, the same has hospitals do. And that then ties into the SSN card, still issued at birth. Because without it their parents can't claim them as a deduction when paying taxes. And if they didn't get the SSN to get the deduction because a family of two and the baby are making the enormous amount of $16,650 and don't file taxes, well, they're going to need that SSN to apply for WIC or anything else that will keep them off the streets.

The race thing you're tossing in at the end is irrelevant to US citizens. You can be born Inuit but you still have a SSN.

Seriously, I'd buy "I have no birth certificate" from a citizen from another country or someone born in the US before 1950, but once computers entered into the equation and all that data started to get compiled and searchable in public databases then this entire strawman is a useless conversation about an impossible thing. About as impossible as ICE picking up someone on the street who then has zero way to prove they're not a US citizen.

You're picking up the plotline of the Cheech Marin comedy Born in East LA and thinking that we're trucking people over the border without sitting down to find out who they are first. Because frankly, even if they're deporting you they're going to want your real name to make sure that you're put on the list of people deported and unable to enter the US for five years.
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Old Yesterday, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Union City, NJ
651 posts, read 254,701 times
Reputation: 815
Shet makes the shettiest argument I've ever seen in defense of illegal immigrants.
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Old Today, 10:08 AM
 
227 posts, read 404,719 times
Reputation: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymoney View Post
Sure, I'll play strawman. As long as you can tell me where someone can live off less than $10,350 a year. Because anything more and they have to file taxes.

So, if you have been using an incorrect name and DOB your entire life then you're going to have a lot of trouble. But are their parents names their names? Because those are on the birth certificate.

Home births apply for birth certificates, the same has hospitals do. And that then ties into the SSN card, still issued at birth. Because without it their parents can't claim them as a deduction when paying taxes. And if they didn't get the SSN to get the deduction because a family of two and the baby are making the enormous amount of $16,650 and don't file taxes, well, they're going to need that SSN to apply for WIC or anything else that will keep them off the streets.

The race thing you're tossing in at the end is irrelevant to US citizens. You can be born Inuit but you still have a SSN.

Seriously, I'd buy "I have no birth certificate" from a citizen from another country or someone born in the US before 1950, but once computers entered into the equation and all that data started to get compiled and searchable in public databases then this entire strawman is a useless conversation about an impossible thing. About as impossible as ICE picking up someone on the street who then has zero way to prove they're not a US citizen.

You're picking up the plotline of the Cheech Marin comedy Born in East LA and thinking that we're trucking people over the border without sitting down to find out who they are first. Because frankly, even if they're deporting you they're going to want your real name to make sure that you're put on the list of people deported and unable to enter the US for five years.
Is that all one needs to earn to make filing taxes mandatory? Quite low. I was thinking it would be say 30k or 40k. Though I am still not sure using SSN to validate citizenship is the correct way.

Hopefully you are right and ICE or DHS will take the pains to ensure they are not deporting a US citizen and there are steps to ensure that it is not in the hands of just one over-zealous officer.
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Old Today, 10:16 AM
 
1,834 posts, read 1,012,676 times
Reputation: 1289
Yes. It's literally the amount of the standard deduction added to the deduction of one dependent. If you make anything more than that, even one penny, you have to file taxes. You might not owe anything but you still have to declare it.

31K a year is 15/hr at an hourly wage. Which some people think to be too much to pay employees, so it's amusing to me that anyone would find that too little money to be worth paying taxes on.

Using the SSN is only one of several ways. The amount of crap that INS would suffer for deporting a legal resident would be such an explosive disaster there's no way they're not going to want to find out the truth before they put anyone on a truck. They have to send them back home so they need to find out where that is. You can't deport a citizen to some other country they're not from, that's breaking their laws.
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Old Today, 10:26 AM
 
227 posts, read 404,719 times
Reputation: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by HudsonCoNJ View Post
Shet makes the shettiest argument I've ever seen in defense of illegal immigrants.
Can you quote where I was defending illegal immigration ? I was defending access to public schools and emergency hospital care. Either your English comprehension is poor or your world is very small if my comments come across as the xxxiest argument.

My beef is more with people who enable them. For example lets take the DACA thing which President Obama created just before there were reelections. This thing allows kids of illegally entered people to get EAD and stay here.

Now for kids of legally entered immigrants but for whom getting green card is a very long wait like say 15-20 years, they age-out once they cross 18 (or maybe 21). In other words DACA kids have more rights than kids of legally entered people.

This is like the story where dozens of kids were playing knowingly on a used section of a rail track while one lone kid was playing in the unused section of a rail track (its a long hike to get to the unused section as opposed to the used section) and then a train comes along to the point where it can either take the used section or unused section . Guess which direction the engineer is going to take the train.

This I think is the pitfalls of democracy. When a lot of people do illegal things, pass a law to make it legal so that one can get their or their sympathizers votes. And then there was supposed to be DAPA after DACA.
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