Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 10-30-2017, 01:40 AM
 
Location: SE Pennsylvania
368 posts, read 449,400 times
Reputation: 340

Advertisements

NJ Transit covers alot of North Jersey and very little of South Jersey. Why??

In North, most of the urban/suburban areas are covered and even some of the more rural areas are covered, while in South only a small portion of the urban areas got coverage. There should definetly be some extensions.

For one, the "Coast Line" should include all of the Jersey Shore. Dip down past Bay head, past Atlantic City connecting with the "AC Line", terminating at Wildwood.

The "River Line" should extend past Camden. Stretching from Trenton, along the NJ side of the Delaware river, to Wilmington DE.

"Patco" should extend towards Glassboro and/or the Vineland/Millville area.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-30-2017, 02:24 PM
 
10,219 posts, read 19,097,834 times
Reputation: 10880
Because NJ Transit rail is mostly built on the backs of defunct carriers, and that's where they were. And some lines were closed for lack of interest, like a longer North Jersey Coast line. Rail costs a lot to build, a lot to operate, and generally gets poor ridership except in very dense areas.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2017, 02:28 PM
 
1,379 posts, read 1,718,694 times
Reputation: 1840
Why? Plenty of reasons. Population differences being a big one. This affects the ability of the train to run economies of scale. You don't want to run trains if you can't fill them up. It also plays in to NJT and all of Jersey politics paying less attention to South Jersey in general.

South Jersey also became built up much later than North Jersey for the most part, save for the inner ring towns on the PATCO line from Camden to Haddonfield. North and some parts of Central Jersey were built much earlier before the automobile era and thus had trains. Most of South Jersey was built post-World War II when everyone had cars by then, and so considerations for rail were not made during development.

You could also throw in that plenty of people in South Jersey have an adversity towards public transportation. Take for example the citizens of Wenonah who voted against having a stop in town on the proposed Glassboro-Camden Line. You have to read between the lines and realize that many people think the presence of rail will suddenly bring an upsurge of undesirables into their town, especially when it's connected to Camden. I know of people in towns along the River Line who blame a rise in drug issues on the train.

That said, there are places where I think that if the pols were smart and looking towards the future, rail expansion would be warranted. I disagree with some of your suggestions though.

Extending the Coast Line down to Wildwood would be insane. That's way too long of a line. I think that line is fine as it is. The South Jersey Shore, while still pulling in a good amount of New Yorkers and North Jerseyans, is much more strongly connected to Philly and its suburbs both in PA and SJ. The lone NJT heavy rail on SJ runs from Philly to AC. I do think the rest of the Shore should be connected though, even if only active during the summer. Have an extension run from AC all of the way down to Cape May. A long time ago, there was a rail line that would take you from Camden to Cape May (people from Philly would take the ferry to get to Camden). That could also be a possibility to revive, but it doesn't really hit any major population centers in between. I also imagine though that my proposal would be a logistical nightmare and would require some serious eminent domain and action against NIMBY's.

Extending the River Line to Wilmington will be a big ol' glob of "who cares?" As it is, going from Trenton to Camden takes a long time. This is not a viable option for commuters. Light rail is snail rail. It works fine enough in Newark and for Hudson County because the distance is shorter, but that is a LONG trip from Trenton to Camden at those speeds. It's a shame because there are some towns with great bones along that line...this should have been a regular rail line. Go heavy or don't go at all. I think with rail you need to consider, "Would someone regularly want to go on there longest possible trip?" In the case of taking the light rail from Trenton to Wilmington, not many people in their right mind would want to do that. I don't exactly think there is much demand to even DRIVE that route on a regular basis.

Similarly the PATCO Glassboro idea is actually not far off from the aforementioned proposed Glassboro-Camden Line. That too would be light rail like the River Line. Again, too far for most people's tastes for light rail. If it were to be built, it should be heavy rail. I would prefer to see this as an NJT line, and then you could take it to Vineland and Millville, which I would agree with. As for PATCO, there are tracks running south of the current line that I think should be reactivated. You can give service to Laurel Springs, Haddon Heights, and Audubon, and with a small extension of new tracks, Oaklyn, before converging with the existing line at Ferry Ave. Maybe even throw a bone Barrington's way.

The major nadirs of rail are the major Burlington County burbs though, like Mt Laurel, Moorestown, Marlton, Medford. These are big towns with a good amount of wealth and plenty of Philly commuters. Moorestown has tracks and an old inactive station. There is a line thrower that could also hit Maple Shade and could be carried out to Mount Holly. If I had my druthers, I would give Merchantville (Camden County) a stop on the AC Line as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2017, 04:28 PM
 
3,305 posts, read 3,832,073 times
Reputation: 2589
If it makes you feel better, the MTA has very limited extensions for the majority of New York state.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2017, 07:37 PM
 
1,379 posts, read 1,718,694 times
Reputation: 1840
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymoney View Post
If it makes you feel better, the MTA has very limited extensions for the majority of New York state.
Well, no duh. The vast majority of New York State (land-wise, not population-wise) isn't in NYC metro.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-31-2017, 12:22 PM
 
1,221 posts, read 2,095,909 times
Reputation: 1766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spreadofknowledge View Post
NJ Transit covers alot of North Jersey and very little of South Jersey. Why??

In North, most of the urban/suburban areas are covered and even some of the more rural areas are covered, while in South only a small portion of the urban areas got coverage. There should definetly be some extensions.

For one, the "Coast Line" should include all of the Jersey Shore. Dip down past Bay head, past Atlantic City connecting with the "AC Line", terminating at Wildwood.

The "River Line" should extend past Camden. Stretching from Trenton, along the NJ side of the Delaware river, to Wilmington DE.

"Patco" should extend towards Glassboro and/or the Vineland/Millville area.
In addition to history and rights of way, NJT service follows population density and commuter patterns.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...lation_Map.png

Only the far ends of the NNJ lines are lower density than what's served by existing transit in SJ. Additionally, those far ends often barely have a useful service as it is. Ex: Beyond Raritan on the Raritan Valley Line has no weekend service and only 7 inbound trains a day.

To reply to your specific proposals:

- There's no way to extend the Coast Line beyond where it is now without massive, expensive eminent domain battles. Look at it on google maps. Additionally, there's very little density or potential commuters to NNJ below Toms River/Seaside. Even if you extended the line all the way down there, ride time would be impractically long for commuting to NYC.

- SEPTA already goes to Wilmington, and for most populations it would pretty much certainly remain the fastest way to get there, there's not a lot of population on the NJ side.

- A Glassboro and/or Vineland line has been on the table for a long time. If the state can find the money to build it it's not a bad idea. Currently they're barely managing to maintain what they have.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top