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Old 03-19-2008, 01:23 PM
 
Location: North Jersey
10,734 posts, read 14,921,565 times
Reputation: 6472
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobKovacs View Post
There's something that you don't understand, though- I don't dislike NJ, not do I "vehemently hate" it as my friend Kate has said- it just didn't make sense for me and my family as a viable place for us to live, based on what we were looking to get out of life. I still have many relatives there, and I feel I have alot of information that I can share with the people who come here looking for answers, and that's why I still come around here. I didn't realize that one had to be a blue-blooded, card-carrying Jerseyan to be able to post here.........
Well you had me fooled
I can understand you doing what is best for your family but alas I'm a blue blooded card carrying Jerseyan
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Old 03-19-2008, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Ocean County
3,768 posts, read 5,794,632 times
Reputation: 2133
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobKovacs View Post
There's something that you don't understand, though- I don't dislike NJ, not do I "vehemently hate" it as my friend Kate has said- it just didn't make sense for me and my family as a viable place for us to live, based on what we were looking to get out of life. I still have many relatives there, and I feel I have alot of information that I can share with the people who come here looking for answers, and that's why I still come around here. I didn't realize that one had to be a blue-blooded, card-carrying Jerseyan to be able to post here.........
Ok you have a deal moderator. Only once in awhile and thats it. LOL Hey if you were on the thread of Roger Paul getting mugged in Newark them posters would want to give you a good ole beatdown.
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Old 03-19-2008, 01:35 PM
 
9,125 posts, read 22,968,019 times
Reputation: 3321
Quote:
Originally Posted by JERSEY MAN View Post
Ok you have a deal moderator. Only once in awhile and thats it. LOL Hey if you were on the thread of Roger Paul getting mugged in Newark them posters would want to give you a good ole beatdown.
I got into that one early on and said my peace- I've let it run amuck since......lol.
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Old 03-19-2008, 01:44 PM
 
786 posts, read 1,603,955 times
Reputation: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike0421 View Post
Wow Bob, you just wrote what I thought. The states that favor safety over freedom, liberty and individual choice are those who are going to score the highest.
The freedom and liberty to kill yourself and hurt people around you with unsafe habits?

PLEASE......

Human beings are social animals, and as such we have to balance the good of the society with the good of the individual...there is a reason why happiness on average is higher in some socialist countries in Europe. Moderation is the name of the game.
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Old 03-19-2008, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Ocean County
3,768 posts, read 5,794,632 times
Reputation: 2133
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalim2008 View Post
The freedom and liberty to kill yourself and hurt people around you with unsafe habits?

PLEASE......

Human beings are social animals, and as such we have to balance the good of the society with the good of the individual...there is a reason why happiness on average is higher in some socialist countries in Europe. Moderation is the name of the game.
Well said/Reps to you. Unfortunately with all the dummies in the USA we do need the govt. in certain instances to make laws to keep us safe. I tried to give reps but big brother govt. of city data denied me. LOL
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Old 03-19-2008, 02:05 PM
 
Location: NJ
11,608 posts, read 20,540,544 times
Reputation: 4393
Quote:
Originally Posted by njkate View Post
Well you had me fooled
I can understand you doing what is best for your family but alas I'm a blue blooded card carrying Jerseyan
kate, i swear i see you morphing into me each passing day

bob used to be a jersey supporter, when he lived in vegas - he actually used the dreaded "it's not all about cheap housing and low taxes" line too. now he's like an ex-smoker who's determined to rid the world of cigarettes...

right bob?
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Old 03-19-2008, 02:06 PM
 
Location: NJ
11,608 posts, read 20,540,544 times
Reputation: 4393
Quote:
Originally Posted by JERSEY MAN View Post
Well said/Reps to you. Unfortunately with all the dummies in the USA we do need the govt. in certain instances to make laws to keep us safe. I tried to give reps but big brother govt. of city data denied me. LOL
there's a guy i work with - great guy, don't get me wrong - but he actually said to me he wasn't going to buckle his kid in when the law changed to 8/80 because he didn't want the government telling him what to do. cutting off your nose despite your face anyone?
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Old 03-19-2008, 02:16 PM
 
Location: North Jersey
10,734 posts, read 14,921,565 times
Reputation: 6472
Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
there's a guy i work with - great guy, don't get me wrong - but he actually said to me he wasn't going to buckle his kid in when the law changed to 8/80 because he didn't want the government telling him what to do. cutting off your nose despite your face anyone?

It's because of idiots like him, likeable or not, that laws have to be made
I bristle at some of them too as they go overboard
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Old 03-19-2008, 02:18 PM
 
Location: North Jersey
10,734 posts, read 14,921,565 times
Reputation: 6472
QUOTE=tahiti;3190296]kate, i swear i see you morphing into me each passing day

bob used to be a jersey supporter, when he lived in vegas - he actually used the dreaded "it's not all about cheap housing and low taxes" line too. now he's like an ex-smoker who's determined to rid the world of cigarettes... right bob? [/quote]


Omg..say it isn't so!! I'm shocked
to quote Fred Sanford..."hold on Elizabeth..I'm coming"
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Old 03-19-2008, 03:04 PM
 
Location: 38 38' 45" N, -90 20' 08" W
7,646 posts, read 11,040,898 times
Reputation: 6168
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalim2008 View Post
The freedom and liberty to kill yourself and hurt people around you with unsafe habits?

PLEASE......

Human beings are social animals, and as such we have to balance the good of the society with the good of the individual...there is a reason why happiness on average is higher in some socialist countries in Europe. Moderation is the name of the game.
You are using the right language here, to a degree, but you are ultimately missing the mark. I agree with you that the man is social animal, however, as such, his development can not be directed by outside forces, in this case, a centralized bureaucracy called Trenton. Each man should be responsible for his own development, independent of government interference. Your assertion of balancing this spirit of the individual with the good of society, or, better put, social order, is a tricky dance, and one that has plagued many a governing society. When the that balance between social order and freedom tips too precariously in either direction, you potentially imperil that social contract, or restrict one's freedom to the point of superceding the most important document in American government, namely that of the Constitution. The essence of the Constitution is to limit the functions of government. These laws that are in the 'name of the children' or for some other well meaning purpose come with a heavy price tag. Literally. From every child safety seat you buy, to every over-sized SUV one has to buy in order to accommodate multiple ones. Moreover, many of the people branding this legislation haven't the first clue about raising children for instance, or even so much as driving a car without a chaffeur present. This over-reaching of social order, IMO, is a direct result of common people entrusting their affairs to elected officials that don't have a clue about living their ordinary lifestyle. We've drifted, as a nation (especially in the northeast states, by the way) to a society that embraces new legislation rather than seeking to repudiate existing ineffective legislation thathas the dual stigma of doing violence to the Constitution while simultaneously imposing on the common people unwarranted financial burden. This financial threat (failure to comply) is used like a veritable "Sword of Damocles" forcing individuals to comply.

So Kalim, it is my assertion that your socialist Europe, and the over-regulating reach of government that it so desires, only considers that material side of man's social nature, without taking into account the spirituality of man's desires. The choices that govern an individual's life are one's he must make, and they can't be influenced by anyone else. Therefore, I am uneasy around those legislators,(and resist) posing as social collectivists, that benignly and incrementally pass more laws, and as such, begin to play 'God' with the human race. These new laws indicate to me that freedom is on the way down, too far down, in the Garden State, at the expense of order, which is vastly popular. I know, it's just a series of dumb laws that enable a publication such as "Parents" to be able to compile a meaningless list, but for me, the implications of such a list have a far greater (and deleterious) reach to them. These little laws run counter to the principles of limited government envisioned by the framers who authored the Constitution. Last I heard, that document is still every bit as binding today as it was in 1776, but we have a segment of society that would like nothing better than to set it on fire. But I embrace it, and the principles of limited government that it espouses. Throughout history, the presence of an over-reaching government has proved to be the major impediment to thwarting individual liberty. Government will ultimately restrict freedom when holders of power are left to their own devices. These laws that trumpet safety are a derivative of that. After all, they know what's best from you, even though they are guilty of leading the most insulated lives imaginable. The holders of these offices feed off this like a troll: their corrupting influence of power will tend to desire more power. You might be asking "What in the hell does this have to do with safety laws passed with the children in mind"? What about the lobbyists who are influenced by the business interests that manufacture bicycle helmets, or child restraints, air bags, and the like? Who is getting money for what? We don't know, and they don't want us to know. But I digress: this insatiable need for power only leads for desire to acquire more, and that's where increased legislation aids and abets.

The framers of the Constitution were students of history, and were also persecutorial victims. They were keen on the ills of demogagory, and the effects it had on public office seekers, so they crafted a document that sought to limit their controlling authority. Well, guess what? We've devolved, big time, as a society, I fear. Not only state governments, but federal governments as well, have roamed far outside their constitutional boundary lines. And most of us now, are all too eager to smile and nod, and passively embrace it, as long as it is "For the Children" or for safety, or some other cause that a tort lawyer can get filthy rich from.
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