Would You Vote To Recall Corzine? (school districts, property tax, costs)

[Bergmanson]

Originally Posted by Badfish740

The recall has nothing to do with Corzine's conduct and everything to do with Carl Bergmanson playing Don Quixote. The guy was voted out of Glen Ridge a while ago and claims to be a "Whig."...

First of all, I was not “voted out” in Glen Ridge. When I ran, I promised I would not run for re-election, and when the time came – I actually did what I said and did not run for re-election! So you see, elected officials actually can keep their promises, just not the elected official who is currently our Governor.

Second of all, I call myself a Whig because I refuse to join either “major” political party – and why would anyone? These two organizations are two of the most corrupt organizations to ever sully the face of the Earth. You may find it odd that I register as a Whig, I find it odd that anyone would consider registering as a Democrat or a Republican.

Finally, the recall drive has nothing to do with me “playing Don Quixote”, in fact it’s not about me at all. The fact is that the state is in big trouble and it's pretty clear that the guy in charge has no idea what to do about it, or even what he’s doing. There really aren't a lot of options available, so we’re taking a shot (however long) at the best one we have. If we succeed, we’ll be a little better off, and maybe we send a message to the powers that be; if we fail, we are no worse off, but at least we tried, and we gave folks an opportunity to speak out.

[Badfish740]

Originally Posted by Bergmanson

Finally, the recall drive has nothing to do with me “playing Don Quixote”, in fact it’s not about me at all.

Sure...you and Lonegan have no interest in self promotion whatsoever running around like circus ringmasters touting your snake oil schemes. The people of this state are not interested in "pie-in-the-sky" solutions from hucksters. Change must happen in the state with regard to property taxes, corruption, waste, etc...but it will come when people start waking up and voting rather than sitting on the sidelines and complaining. I've said this before. Voter turnout is the root cause of this state's economic woes. The legislature has known for years that though people may scream and yell on 101.5 there's one thing they seem to refuse to do-VOTE! We don't need "Whigs" or "Americans for Prosperity" to come and save us with some political panacea-we need people who will get up off their butts and vote.

[Bergmanson]

First of all, I notice that you just ignore the fact that I caught you in a bald-faced lie.

- good tactic I suppose...

Second of all, recall is not a snake-oil scheme, it's a statutory option that the citizens fought hard for, and the legislature responded in a way that showed its contempt for the electorate, by giving them an "almost impossible to do" recall law.

Thirdly, I agree with you that one of the biggest problems we have is citizens who don't vote, and voters who don't bother to become informed, but I fail to see how attacking me and other people who are trying to use the few tools our New Jersey "democracy" gives us to put pressure on the Governor to stop breaking his promises and start doing something about the sorry state of the State of New Jersey, is going to encourage more people to become involved. You "say" that people need to get off their butts and vote, but by your actions here, it would seem that you are trying to discourage people from becoming involved, which makes me wonder who you really are, and what your really are up to, and what you have ever done to make things better or encourage people to "get off their butts and vote".

Here are some of the things that I have done to try and get folks to "get off their butts and vote":

I ran for Council in my town, against the one-party system that has controlled Glen Ridge for 95 years, and I served for 9 years. I started an alternative party in Glen Ridge so that, at least for a few years, when people actually did go to the voting booth, they actually had a choice. I ran for Mayor and served for 4 years (like all elected officials in Glen Ridge, with no salary and no benefits). I have personally run 6 voter registration drives, and participated in many more. I have worked with Elementary School students, introducing them to how their government works and encouraging them to talk about the importance of voting with their parents. I have worked with High School students to help them understand the functions of government at all levels and how important it is for them to register, to vote, and to become involved. All of these things have helped increase voter turn-out, and voter participation.

What, exactly, have you done?

[cue crickets]

Our effort to recall Jon Corzine, one of the worst Governors in the history of New Jersey (and that is saying a lot), may ultimately fail, but I have already spoken to many people who had stopped participating, stopped voting, because they felt they could not make a difference, who are now out there getting signatures, and who will now return to the voting booth. Every time someone signs our petition, another N.J. voter becomes a little more empowered (maybe that’s what scares you). Every person who takes the time to go Recall Corzine Now, download the petition and circulate it to their friends and neighbors is another person leaving the sidelines and getting into the game of democracy, as fixed as that game is here in New Jersey.

Say what you like about us, but we are not “sitting on the sidelines” – that seems to be what folks like you do best.

[Badfish740]

Originally Posted by Bergmanson

First of all, I notice that you just ignore the fact that I caught you in a bald-faced lie.

Sorry. I thought I had read that on PolitickerNJ. I was wrong.

Originally Posted by Bergmanson

Second of all, recall is not a snake-oil scheme, it's a statutory option that the citizens fought hard for, and the legislature responded in a way that showed its contempt for the electorate, by giving them an "almost impossible to do" recall law.

Here's a novel concept, how about voting for the right person the first time instead of this Monday morning quarterback gimmick?

Originally Posted by Bergmanson

Thirdly, I agree with you that one of the biggest problems we have is citizens who don't vote, and voters who don't bother to become informed, but I fail to see how attacking me and other people who are trying to use the few tools our New Jersey "democracy" gives us to put pressure on the Governor to stop breaking his promises and start doing something about the sorry state of the State of New Jersey, is going to encourage more people to become involved. You "say" that people need to get off their butts and vote, but by your actions here, it would seem that you are trying to discourage people from becoming involved, which makes me wonder who you really are, and what your really are up to, and what you have ever done to make things better or encourage people to "get off their butts and vote".

Well for starters, I haven't missed an election since I turned 18. As far as I'm concerned I'm fulfilling my duty as a citizen with that one simple action. What I have a problem with is the promotion of the idea that the citizens of New Jersey have been "victimized" by the "big bad legislature," the "evil teacher's union," etc... THE CITIZENS OF NEW JERSEY VOTED THESE PEOPLE IN AND STOOD IDLY BY WHILE THEY ROBBED US BLIND!!! Then people like you and Lonegan come in with a radical conservative agenda telling us that you're going to save us all by knocking every legislator and official with a "D" next to their name out of office. It's not just the Democrats and its not just the Democratic voters-BOTH parties have abused their power. Why? Because the people of New Jersey could care less. There is no oversight by the voters in any way, shape, or form. For years the citizens of New Jersey have elected bad Republicans and bad Democrats. The parties are irrelevant-crooks have been attracted to the legislature like moths to a flame because they know that the citizens of this state don't care enough to vote.

Originally Posted by Bergmanson

I have personally run 6 voter registration drives, and participated in many more. I have worked with Elementary School students, introducing them to how their government works and encouraging them to talk about the importance of voting with their parents. I have worked with High School students to help them understand the functions of government at all levels and how important it is for them to register, to vote, and to become involved. All of these things have helped increase voter turn-out, and voter participation.

All of those things are great-so why not keep doing that instead of pursuing this ridiculous recall effort?

Originally Posted by Bergmanson

What, exactly, have you done?

[cue crickets]

I mentioned what I've done above. I do what about 4 million other New Jerseyans fail to do every November.

Originally Posted by Bergmanson

Our effort to recall Jon Corzine, one of the worst Governors in the history of New Jersey (and that is saying a lot)

And you're going to tell me with a straight face that this ISN'T politically driven? Care to list the reasons you classify the guy as the "worst" in the history of New Jersey? Personally I think that title belongs to Jim McGreevey.

Originally Posted by Bergmanson

Every time someone signs our petition, another N.J. voter becomes a little more empowered (maybe that’s what scares you).

Out of control property taxes, obsolete school funding formulas, waste, fraud, abuse, and corruption scare me. What annoys me about this little petition is that you're essentially holding an empowerment campaign for one party, which is ironic since you claim to shun political parties.

Originally Posted by Bergmanson

Say what you like about us, but we are not “sitting on the sidelines” – that seems to be what folks like you do best.

For the third time, I vote, therefore I have the right complain, criticize, and judge. The people of New Jersey have only themselves to blame for this mess. Stop trying to tell them it's not their fault and shifting the blame to the politicians, the unions, the teachers, etc... Since you're accusing me of doing nothing maybe I should start an ad campaign stating the following:

"QUIT WHINING AND START VOTING!"

[Bergmanson]

What are you talking about?

While Steve Lonegan and I can agree that Corzine is doing a terrible job, our political views are very different (in fact, last year a website dubbed me the "anti Steve Lonegan", although that's not accurate either), and Mayor Lonegan is not involved in the Recall Campaign. If this recall effort is successful, Dick Codey would be the new Governor, he's not a Republican - and neither am I.

As far as voting in every election, that's great, everyone should. I too vote in every election that I'm eligible for (I can't vote in Primaries because - as you know - I'm not a member of either party) - I have missed one school election in Cedar Grove 20 years ago because they closed the polls at 2pm - I had never heard of such a thing. I have never missed a General Election.

But just because some people don't exercise their right to vote, that doesn't get the Governor and the legislature off the hook with me for the "Out of control property taxes, obsolete school funding formulas, waste, fraud, abuse, and corruption." The last straw for me was when Governor Corzine basically said that he advocates the destruction of over 300 towns in New Jersey - including the one that I live in - because small towns are "inefficient", even though the State's own numbers show that to be a lie.

I'm just one guy, trying to do the right thing. Frankly, I was looking forward to taking a break from politics, my son is a freshman at Brown and I took a second job to help with the tuition, so the last thing I needed was to try and start a state-wide campaign, but I felt that I had no choice - If you come after my town, and over 300 other towns that are the lifeblood of this State, I'm going to come after you with everything I've got, whether you are a mega-millionaire Governor or not.

Speaking of second-jobs, I’ve got to get back to work, so this will be my last post, at least for a while. Save your attacks for the people who are the problem, not for folks who are trying to make things better.

[Badfish740]

Originally Posted by Bergmanson

But just because some people don't exercise their right to vote, that doesn't get the Governor and the legislature off the hook with me.

It may not, but it's a fact. If voter turnout was in the 70s 80s (or even the 60s for God's sake) legislators would be put on notice. I believe that human beings are basically good, but that absolute power corrupts absolutely. The NJ State Legislature practically has absolute power simply because the populace doesn't care enough to take it from them.

Originally Posted by Bergmanson

The last straw for me was when Governor Corzine basically said that he advocates the destruction of over 300 towns in New Jersey - including the one that I live in - because small towns are "inefficient", even though the State's own numbers show that to be a lie.

Destruction? Oh come on. Asking towns to give up the silly notion of home rule by combining their police, fire, public works, school systems, etc...is just common sense. No one is advocating wiping them off the map. Home rule is part of what is strangling our state. Coming from Glen Ridge you should know. You can drive for fifteen minutes on Bloomfield Avenue and pass through six different towns all with their own services-thats insanity! Since it's just up the road from you please tell me how combining the North Caldwell, Caldwell, and West Caldwell police departments would "destroy" those towns? Also, in case you're thinking of accusing me of being biased against small towns I close on my house in High Bridge June 30th-population 4,000 give or take.

[CuCullin]

Originally Posted by Badfish740

Destruction? Oh come on. Asking towns to give up the silly notion of home rule by combining their police, fire, public works, school systems, etc...is just common sense. No one is advocating wiping them off the map. Home rule is part of what is strangling our state. Coming from Glen Ridge you should know. You can drive for fifteen minutes on Bloomfield Avenue and pass through six different towns all with their own services-thats insanity! Since it's just up the road from you please tell me how combining the North Caldwell, Caldwell, and West Caldwell police departments would "destroy" those towns? Also, in case you're thinking of accusing me of being biased against small towns I close on my house in High Bridge June 30th-population 4,000 give or take.

Keep in mind that per capita, small towns have been the most cost efficient in all of those categories - our tax fun is from other areas of ridiculousness.

[Badfish740]

Originally Posted by CuCullin

Keep in mind that per capita, small towns have been the most cost efficient in all of those categories - our tax fun is from other areas of ridiculousness.

Eh...point taken. I'm just skeptical of this kind of politics. I don't support any efforts to impeach Bush and I don't support any efforts to recall Corzine. What I do support is greater civic awareness and involvement. The recall effort will fail, sending a message to all politicians that they are safe and sound because not only are people too lazy to vote them out, they're also too lazy to recall them.

[CuCullin]

Originally Posted by Badfish740

Eh...point taken. I'm just skeptical of this kind of politics. I don't support any efforts to impeach Bush and I don't support any efforts to recall Corzine. What I do support is greater civic awareness and involvement. The recall effort will fail, sending a message to all politicians that they are safe and sound because not only are people too lazy to vote them out, they're also too lazy to recall them.

Same here. While I do think much of what has been done so far has been pretty worthless, I don't see the point in a recall - right now, its just going to be some other idiot with big talk, no follow through, and a spend-spend-spend mentality.

[ProudCapMarine]

Sounds like a great idea.