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Old 06-12-2018, 09:30 PM
bn1
 
128 posts, read 203,608 times
Reputation: 260

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JG183 View Post
Immigration was intended to complement our culture, not define it.
I'll take this as your opinion. I don't think anyone has the authority to determine what impact on culture was intended by immigration. What will happen will happen.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JG183 View Post
And, IMNSHO, immigration has served it's purpose. The USA no longer needs to bolster its population.
The impact of immigration is far more than just bolstering of population. This is a broad and oversimplified statement. Immigration is give and take, depending on the times. Throughout US history, different groups of people have immigrated (or brought here) for different reasons. If you're talking about bolstering of population, the amount of Korean-Americans who have immigrated make an almost insignificant impact on overall US population compared to other ethnicities. In the 60s and 70s the US government brought in Koreans to bolster the lack of skilled professionals in certain disciplines (i.e. medicine) - not to bolster the population.

However, you'll be happy to know that immigration rates from Korea have slowed down as Korea has become a wealthy country with a high standard of living. Now that it's slowing down, Donald Trump actually wants Korean companies like Samsung to increase their presence in the US - hiring American employees but also bringing innovation from abroad.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JG183 View Post
Yes.


You want to speak/write something other than English ?


Fine -- just don't expect the rest of us to adapt to you.
I hardly think Korean-Americans in Palisades Park are expecting you (or anyone else) to adapt - they're just calling out the fact that they're here to stay and they are as American as any other 1st or 2nd generation American in US history. It's you who are expecting them to adapt to you. The short answer is that's never really happened in ethnic enclaves throughout US history, so there's no reason to expect that to change. The long answer is, they will adapt to you eventually but we'll probably be gone by then since it'll be future generations. If history repeats itself, there's every reason to assume that Korean enclaves like Palisades Park will be diminished or almost gone in 50 years as another 1st generation ethnic group takes its place.

Interesting observation - Koreans who immigrated to the US in the 60s, 70s, and 80s generally made a big effort to "assimilate", to the extent that their kids don't speak a lick of Korean. In comparison, Koreans who immigrated in the 90s and 2000s came when there was an enclave available so their kids tend to be bilingual and are more accustomed to being surrounded by other Korean-Americans - they've also had the benefit of experiencing less racism than previous waves of immigrants who didn't have an enclave to grown up in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JG183 View Post
No, we have the Stars & Stripes -- not the Union Jack.
So you're confirming that it's not the speaking/writing of English that makes someone American - it's the Stars & Stripes flag.

Last edited by bn1; 06-12-2018 at 10:13 PM..
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Old 06-12-2018, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Earth
7,644 posts, read 6,446,972 times
Reputation: 5828
Quote:
Originally Posted by JG183 View Post
Immigration was intended to complement our culture, not define it.


And, IMNSHO, immigration has served it's purpose. The USA no longer needs to bolster its population.








Yes.


You want to speak/write something other than English ?


Fine -- just don't expect the rest of us to adapt to you.








No, we have the Stars & Stripes -- not the Union Jack.

If we had no immigration, we had falling populations like in asia and europe. Young people by crap in our consumer economy which still drives our nation's economy and replace an aging population. I also am for absorbing brainpower from other countries as much as possible. We took in a nazi scientist like von braun to beat the soviets to the moon.


If you want to succeed in this country and engage in commerce, you will write/speak english no matter if its the law or not.


Hawaii still has the the union jack on its flag and Mississippi has a confederate battle flag which is based of the scotland's flag.
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Old 06-12-2018, 11:39 PM
 
11,337 posts, read 11,008,074 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
Well, yes; much of what is now called North America once belonged to Indians/Native Americans if anyone until Europeans arrived.


But as non-whites they weren't thought of as anything to worry about after all first they were "pagans". Secondly the god of White European settlers obviously meant for them to have the *New World*, it was their destiny.
This is not true. Nothing in North America belonged to anyone. Private property rights were not a feature of primitive native tribes. They were introduced as a concept through advanced European societies.


And the Indians didn't even recognize these rights with each other. The rule was brutal oppression and taking by the use of naked physical power. In fact, the Indians themselves were not even a unified thing. They were a collection of warring tribes and wandering agrarian primitivity.


The Europeans CREATED America, including all the advanced concepts that come with a civilized society. Conquest of new lands was the rule at that time, and it was the correct thing to do at the time. They IMPROVED what was here by IMPROVING the results of conquest, which was already here and being practiced by primitive indigenous warring tribes. European conquest was better than the pre-existing variant practiced by primitive tribes.


Too much revisionism these days, portraying a gentle unified culture of peace-loving innocents invaded by evil outsiders. It was anything but that, in fact it was the opposite of that. So let's stop vilifying European conquest of North America. It is responsible for creating the greatest country in the history of the planet and our species: America.
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Old 06-13-2018, 06:26 AM
 
329 posts, read 202,844 times
Reputation: 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by JG183 View Post
False -- not all the signs are in both Korean and English, I'll drive by tomorrow & take some photos for you.


Let's see them. This was a big deal a decade ago, and shop owners were fined heavily for not having English on their signs besides Korean.
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Old 06-13-2018, 06:34 AM
 
329 posts, read 202,844 times
Reputation: 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by bn1 View Post

I hardly think Korean-Americans in Palisades Park are expecting you (or anyone else) to adapt - they're just calling out the fact that they're here to stay and they are as American as any other 1st or 2nd generation American in US history. It's you who are expecting them to adapt to you. The short answer is that's never really happened in ethnic enclaves throughout US history, so there's no reason to expect that to change. The long answer is, they will adapt to you eventually but we'll probably be gone by then since it'll be future generations. If history repeats itself, there's every reason to assume that Korean enclaves like Palisades Park will be diminished or almost gone in 50 years as another 1st generation ethnic group takes its place.

Interesting observation - Koreans who immigrated to the US in the 60s, 70s, and 80s generally made a big effort to "assimilate", to the extent that their kids don't speak a lick of Korean. In comparison, Koreans who immigrated in the 90s and 2000s came when there was an enclave available so their kids tend to be bilingual and are more accustomed to being surrounded by other Korean-Americans - they've also had the benefit of experiencing less racism than previous waves of immigrants who didn't have an enclave to grown up in.
It's difficult to define Korean American demographic in the US. They are a mixed group in terms of class and profession. There are already 3rd generation Koreans if you look, they don't live in Palisades Park. The most expensive town in NJ is Alpine, NJ. 25% of the population are 2nd and 3rd generation Koreans, and they live in $4-$10million homes, are CEO's, doctors, lawyers, bankers, business owners, etc. Interestingly, there is absolutely no hint of racism in Alpine, NJ. Palisades Park is a place for recent working class Korean immigrants here to establish their footing in America or else it's a retirement town for older Koreans who want to downsize.

Koreans exhibit exceptional upward mobility in society. My observation is an average Korean family in Pal Park won't be there for more than 10 years, they will move on to better towns, and their children will have moved to the city or higher end suburban towns after graduation. For that reason, Koreans in Pal Park never really establish a permanent mark, as it's Korean inhabitants are constantly in flux, a temporary home constantly replaced by a new set of Korean immigrants, wheras other Pal Park residents live there for their entire lives. This may contribute to part of the resentment.

Last edited by Harry88; 06-13-2018 at 06:54 AM..
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Old 06-13-2018, 06:40 AM
 
329 posts, read 202,844 times
Reputation: 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by bn1 View Post

I hardly think Korean-Americans in Palisades Park are expecting you (or anyone else) to adapt - they're just calling out the fact that they're here to stay and they are as American as any other 1st or 2nd generation American in US history. It's you who are expecting them to adapt to you.

Referencing Rotundo's mother, and the concept of being "American" which she believes Korean Americans are not. it really is a relative matter. I would bet many NJ Italians if they traveled to Midland Texas, or Little Rock Arkansas would be seen as immigrants or tourists based on how they look and behave.
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Old 06-13-2018, 06:59 AM
 
329 posts, read 202,844 times
Reputation: 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post


Too much revisionism these days, portraying a gentle unified culture of peace-loving innocents invaded by evil outsiders. It was anything but that, in fact it was the opposite of that. So let's stop vilifying European conquest of North America. It is responsible for creating the greatest country in the history of the planet and our species: America.
Actually, it was the British, not the Europeans that engaged conquest of America. Britain was geographically "Europe", but not politically or culturally. Today, the English are not European again via Brexit after the failed EU experiment. European immigration in America mostly came later during 20th century industrialization when the US needed cheap labor.
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:29 AM
 
19,067 posts, read 25,221,023 times
Reputation: 25387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry88 View Post
I would bet many NJ Italians if they traveled to Midland Texas, or Little Rock Arkansas would be seen as immigrants or tourists based on how they look and behave.
Definitely!
When Geraldine Ferraro was running for V.P. in 1984, her unique candidacy attracted a lot of attention, and many reporters trailed her as she crisscrossed The US. Several of those reporters mentioned the negative comments uttered by... Good 'muricans… in rural areas, particularly in The South, and the level of negativity connected with her ethnicity was very revealing. Perhaps the most memorable comments were uttered by someone in The Deep South, who shouted, "What are your kids' names? Are they named Pizza Ferraro and Spaghetti Ferraro?".
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,300 posts, read 84,311,090 times
Reputation: 114642
Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
A lot of older Baby Boomers are just inherently racist. That's the culture they grew up in.
Of course, it was also the Baby Boomers who marched for civil rights and fought for affirmative action.
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:41 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,300 posts, read 84,311,090 times
Reputation: 114642
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry88 View Post
"Whites of European ancestry" is a modern socialist construct. It doesn't really exist. A WASP (White Anglo Saxon Protestant) or someone of English, Dutch or German ancestry left Bergen county generations ago when the post WW2 italians and Irish catholics were moving in and there was racist persecution going on then too. You still have blue laws in Bergen county when clearly, wasps have mostly left the area and predominately catholic. Blue Laws will end soon as a function of demographics.

And Pal Park wasn't "white" when the Koreans came. It was Italian.

Racism is a generational projection in NJ. The persecuted become persecutors to new set of immigrants.
No, I only left Bergen County eight years ago. We had a saying, "If ya ain't Dutch, ya ain't much", but we were kidding. Mostly.

But I do know what you are saying. My grandfather (1905 - 1972) told my mother never to date an Italian man because they are dirty and they all have sex with their daughters. He was angry when Poles, Irish, Italians, and other "ethnic" types moved to Midland Park from the city in the late 50s and early 60s and built their "GD Catholic Church" in town. He was upset when my sister became engaged to a guy who was half-Italian. He died before another sister married a black guy.

Fortunately, BECAUSE of the way he was, our mother raised us to be different, and my father just said "racism is stupid." Dad was a logical sort.
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