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It would be healthier for our towns if NJ seniors didn't flee the state when they retire. Yes, tax them, but tax them for the municipal portion of the budget...the police, roads, etc. But we are taxing them waaaaay too much for schools, of course they are all looking for the nearest exit. This is the idea behind 55 and overs...why can't we extend that to homes that are already owned?
It's a crying shame when people own their homes outright and can't live in them after they retire because of property taxes
People with yearly retirement incomes much greater than mine, stream out of NJ once they retire, for greener, less expensive pastures. They know they can sell their NJ home for big bucks and get out from under the crushing tax burden, while moving into a new house with "yearly property taxes" less than one of the "quarterly property tax bills" they're used to!
I've always said that the happiest teachers (and cops, for that matter!) in North Carolina are the ones from Northern NJ and Long Island who retire here, with pensions that are equal to the salaries of still-working North Carolina teachers, who have the same amount of years in! Of course, everything isn't entirely a bed of roses! Those teachers and others with substantial retirement income, find their pensions are taxed at a much higher rate (...about 8%) than NJ or NY would tax them. So your big property tax break from a move, may not generate as much savings as you think!
Shop very carefully for a new state before you decide to view NJ in the rear-view mirror!
It would be healthier for our towns if NJ seniors didn't flee the state when they retire. Yes, tax them, but tax them for the municipal portion of the budget...the police, roads, etc. But we are taxing them waaaaay too much for schools, of course they are all looking for the nearest exit. This is the idea behind 55 and overs...why can't we extend that to homes that are already owned?
It's a crying shame when people own their homes outright and can't live in them after they retire because of property taxes
It would be healthier for our towns if NJ seniors didn't flee the state when they retire. Yes, tax them, but tax them for the municipal portion of the budget...the police, roads, etc. But we are taxing them waaaaay too much for schools, of course they are all looking for the nearest exit. This is the idea behind 55 and overs...why can't we extend that to homes that are already owned?
It's a crying shame when people own their homes outright and can't live in them after they retire because of property taxes
Seniors and property taxes is a complicated issue to sort out, too many moving targets.
People are living longer, in a good amount of cases one or both homeowners *much* longer than in the past. So if you own, then yes, you are going to be paying those high property taxes.
Back in the day many older folks didn't grumble so much about high property taxes because it went towards providing services (schools, healthcare, etc...) for *ahem* people and or their children like themselves. Fast forward to today with so many areas experiencing changes demographically not everyone is thrilled some new residents/neighbors.
People also tend to forget that in many cases owning property in a good to excellent school area adds considerable value. So while seniors and others may grumble about taxes going towards local public schools, they do often benefit indirectly.
Finally there is something we all already know; you can't reduce taxes even on one group without getting ahold of spending. Something NJ like NY, Conn, MA, CA, along with a good number of other states/local governments simply refuse to do.
Seniors and property taxes is a complicated issue to sort out, too many moving targets.
People are living longer, in a good amount of cases one or both homeowners *much* longer than in the past. So if you own, then yes, you are going to be paying those high property taxes.
Back in the day many older folks didn't grumble so much about high property taxes because it went towards providing services (schools, healthcare, etc...) for *ahem* people and or their children like themselves. Fast forward to today with so many areas experiencing changes demographically not everyone is thrilled some new residents/neighbors.
People also tend to forget that in many cases owning property in a good to excellent school area adds considerable value. So while seniors and others may grumble about taxes going towards local public schools, they do often benefit indirectly.
Finally there is something we all already know; you can't reduce taxes even on one group without getting ahold of spending. Something NJ like NY, Conn, MA, CA, along with a good number of other states/local governments simply refuse to do.
The problem, at the core, is taxing property instead of income.
Once you pay for your house in full but are still holding a property tax bill every year worth up to 2% (or more) of the value of the home, you don't own that home. So really you never, truly, own a home in NJ and many other states. Permanent renting is more like it
I understand municipal services being tied to the home...you need a police and fire department and plowing etc to maintain a safe home. Everyone should pay their share of that
Lumping schools in is where it goes too far. Schools should be funded via other taxation
The problem, at the core, is taxing property instead of income.
Once you pay for your house in full but are still holding a property tax bill every year worth up to 2% (or more) of the value of the home, you don't own that home. So really you never, truly, own a home in NJ and many other states. Permanent renting is more like it
I understand municipal services being tied to the home...you need a police and fire department and plowing etc to maintain a safe home. Everyone should pay their share of that
Lumping schools in is where it goes too far. Schools should be funded via other taxation
So you would rather trust Trenton to dole out the money? At least I see the money going to the schools in my town.
I do think the property taxes are too high and I understand that it sucks if you are forced to leave. There are some ideas, but there is not a lot of political will to make the changes.
I am pretty sure my wife and I will have to move to a more affordable state when we retire - less property taxes, less income taxes, converting our NJ house to cheaper housing, better weather, cheaper insurance, less population, and on and on. It is not a bad thing to leave.
The problem, at the core, is taxing property instead of income.
Once you pay for your house in full but are still holding a property tax bill every year worth up to 2% (or more) of the value of the home, you don't own that home. So really you never, truly, own a home in NJ and many other states. Permanent renting is more like it
I understand municipal services being tied to the home...you need a police and fire department and plowing etc to maintain a safe home. Everyone should pay their share of that
Lumping schools in is where it goes too far. Schools should be funded via other taxation
Actually taxing land makes far more sense economically and otherwise. It isn't going any place and cannot be manipulated or whatever to escape taxation. Income OTOH.....
Historically in Europe and IIRC much of early USA history land is what got taxed. That was reason why British law created (then finally took away) fee entail. People kept locking up land in trusts almost in perpetuity to escape a good portion of taxes levied upon.
There is a push from parts of Europe today and even within USA to get rid of much (if not all) income taxes and move to a land value tax system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax
Land/property taxes are fair game because owners generally benefit from amenities/improvements or whatever that aren't just on their property.
Again there is a reason why homes in areas with good to excellent schools and other amenities in NJ on average are worth more than in some hood.
Take the debate many of us know too well; New York City versus New Jersey.
You can spend $600k for a crappy house on a small lot on Staten Island and yes, pay nearly nothing in property taxes. But the public schools often are a mess (K-5) ditto middle schools and high school unless your kids get into on of the specialized, you're looking at private.
Spending nearly one million (or less) will get you a good sized property in many NJ towns with good to excellent public school systems. This along with tons of good to excellent amenities such as parks, healthcare, things for seniors and kids to do, etc.....
So you would rather trust Trenton to dole out the money? At least I see the money going to the schools in my town.
I do think the property taxes are too high and I understand that it sucks if you are forced to leave. There are some ideas, but there is not a lot of political will to make the changes.
I am pretty sure my wife and I will have to move to a more affordable state when we retire - less property taxes, less income taxes, converting our NJ house to cheaper housing, better weather, cheaper insurance, less population, and on and on. It is not a bad thing to leave.
Trenton already controls everything. That’s here all of the education mandates come from running up costs. It’s not the towns. Oh yeah and they get to override the cap too. Local control is a myth
I think it’s fine if people want to leave but it sucks when people feel they have to move away, especially from family
Actually taxing land makes far more sense economically and otherwise. It isn't going any place and cannot be manipulated or whatever to escape taxation. Income OTOH.....
Historically in Europe and IIRC much of early USA history land is what got taxed. That was reason why British law created (then finally took away) fee entail. People kept locking up land in trusts almost in perpetuity to escape a good portion of taxes levied upon.
There is a push from parts of Europe today and even within USA to get rid of much (if not all) income taxes and move to a land value tax system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax
Land/property taxes are fair game because owners generally benefit from amenities/improvements or whatever that aren't just on their property.
Again there is a reason why homes in areas with good to excellent schools and other amenities in NJ on average are worth more than in some hood.
Take the debate many of us know too well; New York City versus New Jersey.
You can spend $600k for a crappy house on a small lot on Staten Island and yes, pay nearly nothing in property taxes. But the public schools often are a mess (K-5) ditto middle schools and high school unless your kids get into on of the specialized, you're looking at private.
Spending nearly one million (or less) will get you a good sized property in many NJ towns with good to excellent public school systems. This along with tons of good to excellent amenities such as parks, healthcare, things for seniors and kids to do, etc.....
Its not extra curricular activities (well maybe some) making taxes so high, it's decades of voting Democrats into office who gave away ridiculous pensions for votes. You're paying for 50+ years of pensions and benefits in your taxes.
You were incorrect the last time you used that pension lie and you're incorrect now.
Trenton already controls everything. That’s here all of the education mandates come from running up costs. It’s not the towns. Oh yeah and they get to override the cap too. Local control is a myth
They do and they don't control local issues. There is a reason why some systems are better than others. I am just happy that the $6800/$10k that we pay goes directly into my school system. Sending that $6800 to Trenton would NEVER come back to my town. With the last governor it would have ended up buried in some highway. The governor before that would have sent it to the Abbott districts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bookspage
I think it’s fine if people want to leave but it sucks when people feel they have to move away, especially from family
My whole family is in NJ. I would rather not leave. PA has issues, but it can be way cheaper than NJ and you can still be pretty close to NJ. There are a ton of choices if you want warm weather.
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