U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-31-2018, 09:04 PM
 
639 posts, read 326,381 times
Reputation: 567

Advertisements

I love New Jersey (hence the username) but over the course of the past few months, I have been feeling a bit down as to the future prospects of this great state. I'm curious as to how others feel about my thinking. Am I right? Wrong?

For much of the 20th century, New Jersey was the place to be. Our farms fed the world, our factories produced for the world, and our suburbs created the American dream for those returning from WWII. Sure, we had our share of problems like any other place, but New Jersey was prosperous and proud.

I think things started to head south slowly but surely in the late 1970s (though in some urban communities 1967). We saw the establishment of an income tax, Atlantic City got a monopoly on gaming, and some industries starting moving south or overseas. A series of activist court decisions placed mandates on municipalities and in the case of Abott Vs. Burke, paved the way for New Jersey having the highest property taxes in the nation.

The auto industry, agriculture, and tourism in Atlantic City have seen a steady decline in recent decades. While we still have an abundance of jobs in health care, pharmaceuticals, and chemicals, some companies like Hoffmann La Roche have moved elsewhere. Our once vibrant urban areas have seen a steady decline thanks to high crime and bad public schools. There are some sections of Newark and Jersey City that have been revitalized, but that does little to help residents in Paterson, Trenton, Union City, Atlantic City, and Camden.

Today, there are really three New Jerseys. There is urban New Jersey, which has expensive failing schools, high crime, corruption, and little opportunity for residents. This New Jersey is home to the poor and those left behind as people moved to the suburbs in the 60s and 70s. There is rural New Jersey, a place of great beauty where agriculture once was a thriving industry, but today is losing population thanks to limits on development and younger generations not wanting to run farms. And then there is suburban New Jersey. While many still realize their American dream in suburban New Jersey, many also struggle to make ends meet thanks to high property taxes and real estate costs. Some are beginning to leave this New Jersey.

Governor Murphy has promised to double-down on the failures of his predecessors. New Jersey's economy lags behind the rest of the country, the gap between rich and poor is more pronounced here than in America as a whole, our property taxes are the highest in the country, we lead the nation in outward migration and young people living at home, and our state's credit rating has been downgraded eight times in recent years thanks to unfunded liabilities in excess of $180 billion. This all just 17 years after the state had a budget surplus and has passed property tax relief followed by 30% across-the-board income tax cuts in response to voters rejecting Murphy's brand of spend & tax liberalism in the 1993 gubernatorial race. In 2017, voters supported doubling-down on past mistakes.

My fear is that urban New Jersey will continue to have high crime and failing schools, rural New Jersey will continue to be abandoned, and people will continue to struggle in suburban New Jersey as a result of having to bear the burden of a shrinking tax base and high cost of living. There does not seem to be the political will on the part of voters to change things, nor do we have a Governor who understands how to do so. It seems to me that our leaders are doubling-down on decades of failures and that those of us who want to make sure New Jersey is all she can be are setting ourselves up for disappointment.

Why should someone pay $1500 per month for a 1 bedroom apartment in rent or buy a home for $400,000 plus $9,000 per year in property taxes to fund expensive failing schools, to give tax breaks to some of the largest corporations in the world for a few jobs, patronage jobs, and to have an Attorney General focus more on defying federal immigration law instead of cracking down on cronyism and corruption here in New Jersey?

Sure, there are some great things about our state. Culture, towns filled with character, honest people, beautiful scenery, world-class cuisine, rich history, and more. But at what point do we see massive outward migration, a further eroding tax base, and even more limited economic opportunities? If our urban areas haven't cleaned up streets, reduced crime, and improved schools after decades of receiving more money from suburban taxpayers, when will they? What does the future hold for our great state?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old Yesterday, 08:24 AM
 
14,308 posts, read 4,410,375 times
Reputation: 5339
Great story, I agree with much of your praise for this state .It truly is a great place to live and raise a family. Your bias against Murphy , your hatred clouds you vision. The man deserves a chance to turn things around and if he doesn't then handle it at election time . Your constant Murphy bashing is very trump like, like a petulant child.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 09:20 AM
 
Location: NJ
16,238 posts, read 11,220,828 times
Reputation: 10387
Quote:
Originally Posted by G1.. View Post
Great story, I agree with much of your praise for this state .It truly is a great place to live and raise a family. Your bias against Murphy , your hatred clouds you vision. The man deserves a chance to turn things around and if he doesn't then handle it at election time . Your constant Murphy bashing is very trump like, like a petulant child.
It doesn't take four years to see the direction murphy is headed.


It doesn't take a genius to appreciate that 18% of voters selected guvmurph for the rest of us. Far from a quorum or mandate.


Hate is a misused word and improperly projected by liberals/dems. So much for the little blue lawn signs, 'no room for hate in this home', which implies no more room for hate, as that home is already overflowing with hate. As a projectionist 'you' rationalize that any position opposed to yours is invalid because it is clouded by hate. A lesson learned from despotic regimes that suppress by persecution and prosecute opposing expression.


A mirror is your best friend. Though facial recognition would be an impossibility.


It is the voters and lack of participation that keeps the NJ we love and hope it can be, first on lists of worst places and last on lists of best places.


To elect another goldman sachs elitist is to relive the JC administration. Here we have financial gurus who have no clue how to even begin making a positive difference. They live in a world of theory and like a miss America contestant, claim they are for world peace, prosperity and equality for all....and just enough perennially naÔve NJ voters fall for it every time. The difference between JC and guvmurph, is guvmurph is bewitched by left wing socialism.


Yep, before you drive from Bergen county to Cape May, your left rear car tire is looking a little flat, but 'we' need to give it a chance to reflate. What alien world owns that logic?


Impeach murphy.


Legalize betting on election outcomes to encourage voter participation. No way the results can possibly be worse than they are now.


No one hates guvmurph, they simply oppose his policies and the direction in which he is taking the state of NJ.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 11:35 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
1,637 posts, read 3,007,047 times
Reputation: 523
As a homeowner, I got a nice homestead rebate check every year under Corzine.
Christie took that away, and gave me a gas tax hike.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 11:40 AM
 
11 posts, read 3,408 times
Reputation: 28
As far as financial challenges, this today is only the tip of the iceberg.

Regardless of your political opinions if any of you want this state to no longer be the debt ridden mess that it is public sector pensions should be officially banned(they can get a 401k just like the rest of us), abbott v burke needs to be overturned, marijuana legalized and taxed at a moderate amount, and public housing projects privatized (we are talking tens or even hundreds of billions of dollars in land that would be sold and tax revenue gained from the private owners.

Needless to say some or none of these things will happen, so prepare for a bumpy ride over the next 15-20 years.

Before any of you calling me heartless for wanting to get rid of all free public housing projects, the reason for higher rent in the first place has to do with an inadequate supply to match the demand.

Height limits of apartments/condos within a quarter mile of NJ transit stations should be gotten rid of.

This allows us to greatly increase the supply of housing without causing more highway or town traffic as less people would need to own a car anyway.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Southern Most New Jersey
968 posts, read 723,947 times
Reputation: 1446
Good thread.

Spent the morning talking with two friends. Two of us want out of NJ yesterday. OP has some excellent points but leaves out one - whacked out public pension liabilities. No one I know in private industry can work for just 25 years and get an 80% pension and free healthcare for the rest of their lives.

While I love southern NJ it is time to leave..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 12:11 PM
 
4,019 posts, read 8,830,328 times
Reputation: 3205
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBoy3 View Post
Good thread.

Spent the morning talking with two friends. Two of us want out of NJ yesterday. OP has some excellent points but leaves out one - whacked out public pension liabilities. No one I know in private industry can work for just 25 years and get an 80% pension and free healthcare for the rest of their lives.

While I love southern NJ it is time to leave..
Neither can state employees. Christie made significant reforms to the pension system in 2010 or 2011. Anyone hired after that point has significantly reduced benefits compared to those hired prior to then and has to work to 65 unless they want a severely reduced pension.

More changes will still be needed, and they still need to fully fund the pension, but itís not nearly as generous as it used to be.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 12:13 PM
 
7,096 posts, read 11,046,849 times
Reputation: 7685
Quote:
Originally Posted by njforlife92 View Post
I love New Jersey (hence the username) but over the course of the past few months, I have been feeling a bit down as to the future prospects of this great state. I'm curious as to how others feel about my thinking. Am I right? Wrong?

For much of the 20th century, New Jersey was the place to be. Our farms fed the world, our factories produced for the world, and our suburbs created the American dream for those returning from WWII. Sure, we had our share of problems like any other place, but New Jersey was prosperous and proud.

I think things started to head south slowly but surely in the late 1970s (though in some urban communities 1967). We saw the establishment of an income tax, Atlantic City got a monopoly on gaming, and some industries starting moving south or overseas. A series of activist court decisions placed mandates on municipalities and in the case of Abott Vs. Burke, paved the way for New Jersey having the highest property taxes in the nation.

The auto industry, agriculture, and tourism in Atlantic City have seen a steady decline in recent decades. While we still have an abundance of jobs in health care, pharmaceuticals, and chemicals, some companies like Hoffmann La Roche have moved elsewhere. Our once vibrant urban areas have seen a steady decline thanks to high crime and bad public schools. There are some sections of Newark and Jersey City that have been revitalized, but that does little to help residents in Paterson, Trenton, Union City, Atlantic City, and Camden.

Today, there are really three New Jerseys. There is urban New Jersey, which has expensive failing schools, high crime, corruption, and little opportunity for residents. This New Jersey is home to the poor and those left behind as people moved to the suburbs in the 60s and 70s. There is rural New Jersey, a place of great beauty where agriculture once was a thriving industry, but today is losing population thanks to limits on development and younger generations not wanting to run farms. And then there is suburban New Jersey. While many still realize their American dream in suburban New Jersey, many also struggle to make ends meet thanks to high property taxes and real estate costs. Some are beginning to leave this New Jersey.

Governor Murphy has promised to double-down on the failures of his predecessors. New Jersey's economy lags behind the rest of the country, the gap between rich and poor is more pronounced here than in America as a whole, our property taxes are the highest in the country, we lead the nation in outward migration and young people living at home, and our state's credit rating has been downgraded eight times in recent years thanks to unfunded liabilities in excess of $180 billion. This all just 17 years after the state had a budget surplus and has passed property tax relief followed by 30% across-the-board income tax cuts in response to voters rejecting Murphy's brand of spend & tax liberalism in the 1993 gubernatorial race. In 2017, voters supported doubling-down on past mistakes.

My fear is that urban New Jersey will continue to have high crime and failing schools, rural New Jersey will continue to be abandoned, and people will continue to struggle in suburban New Jersey as a result of having to bear the burden of a shrinking tax base and high cost of living. There does not seem to be the political will on the part of voters to change things, nor do we have a Governor who understands how to do so. It seems to me that our leaders are doubling-down on decades of failures and that those of us who want to make sure New Jersey is all she can be are setting ourselves up for disappointment.

Why should someone pay $1500 per month for a 1 bedroom apartment in rent or buy a home for $400,000 plus $9,000 per year in property taxes to fund expensive failing schools, to give tax breaks to some of the largest corporations in the world for a few jobs, patronage jobs, and to have an Attorney General focus more on defying federal immigration law instead of cracking down on cronyism and corruption here in New Jersey?

Sure, there are some great things about our state. Culture, towns filled with character, honest people, beautiful scenery, world-class cuisine, rich history, and more. But at what point do we see massive outward migration, a further eroding tax base, and even more limited economic opportunities? If our urban areas haven't cleaned up streets, reduced crime, and improved schools after decades of receiving more money from suburban taxpayers, when will they? What does the future hold for our great state?
NJ has a lot more going for it than it did 30 years ago.

30 years ago if you wanted good sushi or wanted to buy ethnic food, you pretty much had to go into NYC.

Now, there's lots of amenities, places like Jersey City and Hoboken which used to have crime are now attractions, and there's two major cities nearby, one of which itself has made major strides (Philly).

If you don't care about any of those things and your life consists of going to Bonefish Grill and Boston Market, or you're into hunting or that kind of life, then I agree.

It's silly to live in NJ.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 12:40 PM
 
9,383 posts, read 14,130,967 times
Reputation: 9476
Nope, it's going to be bread and circuses and corruption until the whole state is Detroit. Only question is how long it takes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 12:41 PM
 
18,106 posts, read 15,299,595 times
Reputation: 34179
Quote:
Originally Posted by G1.. View Post
Great story, I agree with much of your praise for this state .It truly is a great place to live and raise a family. Your bias against Murphy , your hatred clouds you vision. The man deserves a chance to turn things around and if he doesn't then handle it at election time . Your constant Murphy bashing is very trump like, like a petulant child.
Especially as we had a conservative governor who had 8 years to correct these things, and failed. repeating those same policies for another 4 years doesn't make much sense either.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top