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Old 01-07-2019, 02:59 PM
Status: "Free Bird - Eagle has landed" (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: Washington State
16,306 posts, read 8,481,542 times
Reputation: 13854

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JG183 View Post
We were (and still are) forced to pay for two unfunded wars (based on false pretenses), tax cuts for the wealthy, and tax subsidies for profitable corporations.


The majority of us did not want those things to pass, and you want to take away what little we were getting in return ?

GFY
You are benefitting from the system, you need to pay more.
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Old 01-07-2019, 04:01 PM
 
588 posts, read 531,472 times
Reputation: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
im not sure how anyone can have a serious conversation about government spending without talking about military cuts. the military spending is insane. i dont favor any government spending but most offensive to me is spending on mass murder (and police/prison/etc.). its evil. so it should be addressed immediately and we can deal with cutting other spending after.
I like the government to be prepared for what I can't take care of. I can't fight a war against North Korea, China or Russia. Nor can I stop illegals flooding our country. These are areas that I support government spending.

But I can get a job that provides healthcare and save for retirement. I don't need government handouts because I can take care of myself.
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Old 01-07-2019, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Wayne,NJ
1,308 posts, read 864,356 times
Reputation: 1769
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdacunha View Post
I like the government to be prepared for what I can't take care of. I can't fight a war against North Korea, China or Russia. Nor can I stop illegals flooding our country. These are areas that I support government spending.

But I can get a job that provides healthcare and save for retirement. I don't need government handouts because I can take care of myself.
Right now you can get a job the provides healthcare, hope you don't have any pre-existing conditions. Also change jobs, then hope you don't get sick or pay an outrageous price for "cobra" benefits. Just so some insurance company fatcat can make a multi-million dollar salary DENYING your claim for various reasons. Some of these reasons I've heard, "pre-existing condition, experimental, or unproven". I'm not sure of this one, but I belonged to a union that denied coverage for "recreational pursuits, such as skiing, horseback riding, skateboarding, etc.

The best of all, either the facility you are brought to after an accident, or someone on an operative team is "non-participating" in your healthcare plan. I was just reading today about a hospital in San Francisco that doesn't participate in ANY healthcare plans! It's ok if you're on Medicaid but the article I read was about a woman who had a bicycle accident, was brought there by ambulance. (When your in pain are you really going to ask if they participate, and if they don't will the ambulance take you elsewhere?) Then she got presented with a $30k bill that her insurance company would only pay about $6k as "reasonable and customary".

I had an operation at a hospital in Morris County, participating doctor, participating hospital, but I had NO clue the anesthesiologist wasn't participating till I got the bill. This was in 1994, his bill was $2k, my healthcare plan pain $600 as "reasonable and customary", the nearest anesthesiologist that participated was in River Edge, I don't think he worked at the hospital I went to.

The thing that really opened my eyes was the "daily charge" for same day surgery at the hospital was $3400, but they accepted the $1800 BC/BS paid. I took this to mean if you were lucky enough to have insurance the hospital accepted about 1/2 of what they would bill you (and this hospital has a permanent collections law firm) if for some reason you had no insurance.
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Old 01-07-2019, 05:49 PM
 
588 posts, read 531,472 times
Reputation: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue biker View Post
Right now you can get a job the provides healthcare, hope you don't have any pre-existing conditions. Also change jobs, then hope you don't get sick or pay an outrageous price for "cobra" benefits. Just so some insurance company fatcat can make a multi-million dollar salary DENYING your claim for various reasons. Some of these reasons I've heard, "pre-existing condition, experimental, or unproven". I'm not sure of this one, but I belonged to a union that denied coverage for "recreational pursuits, such as skiing, horseback riding, skateboarding, etc.

The best of all, either the facility you are brought to after an accident, or someone on an operative team is "non-participating" in your healthcare plan. I was just reading today about a hospital in San Francisco that doesn't participate in ANY healthcare plans! It's ok if you're on Medicaid but the article I read was about a woman who had a bicycle accident, was brought there by ambulance. (When your in pain are you really going to ask if they participate, and if they don't will the ambulance take you elsewhere?) Then she got presented with a $30k bill that her insurance company would only pay about $6k as "reasonable and customary".

I had an operation at a hospital in Morris County, participating doctor, participating hospital, but I had NO clue the anesthesiologist wasn't participating till I got the bill. This was in 1994, his bill was $2k, my healthcare plan pain $600 as "reasonable and customary", the nearest anesthesiologist that participated was in River Edge, I don't think he worked at the hospital I went to.

The thing that really opened my eyes was the "daily charge" for same day surgery at the hospital was $3400, but they accepted the $1800 BC/BS paid. I took this to mean if you were lucky enough to have insurance the hospital accepted about 1/2 of what they would bill you (and this hospital has a permanent collections law firm) if for some reason you had no insurance.
So the answer if more taxes for universal healthcare? No thank you.

Obviously things need changing but, hospitals and insurance companies should make reasonable profits.
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Old 01-07-2019, 06:07 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
433 posts, read 862,162 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue biker View Post
Right now you can get a job the provides healthcare, hope you don't have any pre-existing conditions. Also change jobs, then hope you don't get sick or pay an outrageous price for "cobra" benefits. Just so some insurance company fatcat can make a multi-million dollar salary DENYING your claim for various reasons. Some of these reasons I've heard, "pre-existing condition, experimental, or unproven". I'm not sure of this one, but I belonged to a union that denied coverage for "recreational pursuits, such as skiing, horseback riding, skateboarding, etc.

The best of all, either the facility you are brought to after an accident, or someone on an operative team is "non-participating" in your healthcare plan. I was just reading today about a hospital in San Francisco that doesn't participate in ANY healthcare plans! It's ok if you're on Medicaid but the article I read was about a woman who had a bicycle accident, was brought there by ambulance. (When your in pain are you really going to ask if they participate, and if they don't will the ambulance take you elsewhere?) Then she got presented with a $30k bill that her insurance company would only pay about $6k as "reasonable and customary".

I had an operation at a hospital in Morris County, participating doctor, participating hospital, but I had NO clue the anesthesiologist wasn't participating till I got the bill. This was in 1994, his bill was $2k, my healthcare plan pain $600 as "reasonable and customary", the nearest anesthesiologist that participated was in River Edge, I don't think he worked at the hospital I went to.

The thing that really opened my eyes was the "daily charge" for same day surgery at the hospital was $3400, but they accepted the $1800 BC/BS paid. I took this to mean if you were lucky enough to have insurance the hospital accepted about 1/2 of what they would bill you (and this hospital has a permanent collections law firm) if for some reason you had no insurance.
Without getting into too complexity of pricing - the takeaway is that federal law mandates hospitals and health systems with ERs to provide AND stabilize treatment for ANY AND ALL who walk through their doors without ability to pay. Hospitals and health systems also must negotiate rates low with big insurance companies to keep volume of patients coming to make up for this free care provided; in most cases, hospitals and health systems run losses based on where they are located - many operate on single digit margins with low cash on hand. Health care in USA is extremely expensive because of the # of players involved who want a piece of the pie but also the amount of uninsured, illegal, and catastrophic cases that end up spending MONTHS AND MONTHS as an inpatient in a hospital which cannot discharge them without a safe plan (for example, currently we have a patient with brain injury for jumping on train track while intoxicated is illegal here and no family admitted for over 4 months and counting! - his neuro checks, medications, multiple CT and MRI and all are hospital's losses) multiply this with five-thousand others who come to the ED every year for free care because nowhere else to go when sick.
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Old 01-08-2019, 08:10 AM
 
Location: NJ
23,125 posts, read 29,097,510 times
Reputation: 14985
pr
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdacunha View Post
I like the government to be prepared for what I can't take care of. I can't fight a war against North Korea, China or Russia. Nor can I stop illegals flooding our country. These are areas that I support government spending.

But I can get a job that provides healthcare and save for retirement. I don't need government handouts because I can take care of myself.
i didnt zero military spending. but the amount the US spends is absolutely insane. they spend about $1 trillion a year, that can go down closer to $200 billion probably.

while all 3 nations you listed arent invading america; i find north korea the most comical. you think north korea has any capacity to invade America?

china and russia done either but people have a misunderstanding about their capacity. im pretty sure nobody believes north korea can invade america.
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Old 01-08-2019, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Wayne,NJ
1,308 posts, read 864,356 times
Reputation: 1769
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdacunha View Post
So the answer if more taxes for universal healthcare? No thank you.

Obviously things need changing but, hospitals and insurance companies should make reasonable profits.
The money is already there and being spent. It's paid by employers and individuals to insurance companies so the CEOs can collect multi-million dollar salaries. NONE of which adds to the value of their products. If the don't pay for a procedure they make money. (Who's got the death squads???)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonorityGenius View Post
Without getting into too complexity of pricing - the takeaway is that federal law mandates hospitals and health systems with ERs to provide AND stabilize treatment for ANY AND ALL who walk through their doors without ability to pay. Hospitals and health systems also must negotiate rates low with big insurance companies to keep volume of patients coming to make up for this free care provided; in most cases, hospitals and health systems run losses based on where they are located - many operate on single digit margins with low cash on hand. Health care in USA is extremely expensive because of the # of players involved who want a piece of the pie but also the amount of uninsured, illegal, and catastrophic cases that end up spending MONTHS AND MONTHS as an inpatient in a hospital which cannot discharge them without a safe plan (for example, currently we have a patient with brain injury for jumping on train track while intoxicated is illegal here and no family admitted for over 4 months and counting! - his neuro checks, medications, multiple CT and MRI and all are hospital's losses) multiply this with five-thousand others who come to the ED every year for free care because nowhere else to go when sick.
In about the middle of your paragraph you mention the whole problem. The NUMBER of players involved, everyone of them getting a piece of the action but so few add anything to the value. The occupant of the White House made a tweet about the high costs of prescriptions, yet I read and article where over 1000 drug prices were raised the first of the year. I've read a few stories about the deaths of people who try to ration their insulin. The price has skyrocketed but the formula is basically the same. These people have less soul than loan sharks.

The healthcare industry spends HOW MUCH money lobbying, sending sales people out pushing new drugs. (Isn't this partly responsible for the opiod crisis?) All money that adds NO value to the product. If your insurance company turns down something and tells you to have your doctor contact them, good luck. IF your doctor calls they get the same run around you do, probably talking to someone with NO medical skills and who is only using a "problem flow sheet" with the answer DENY after all is said and done.
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Old 01-08-2019, 02:09 PM
 
5,909 posts, read 13,493,633 times
Reputation: 3191
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdacunha View Post
So the answer if more taxes for universal healthcare? No thank you.

Obviously things need changing but, hospitals and insurance companies should make reasonable profits.
We already spend more in out of pocket costs. If we all paid a smaller amount in taxes that went towards universal healthcare like in other countries, prices would drop. There is absolutely no logic behind a system that rewards health insurance companies from denying coverage just so their CEO can get rich. Health care should NOT be a for-profit industry. If the government regulated health care costs and provided medicare for all, the industry would not be so focused on profits. People die because they can't afford health care. Idk how anyone working high up for a health insurance company can sleep at night knowing that their massive salary forces people to die every day. Hospitals and insurance companies should NOT be making any profits. Hospitals should be making the money to cover costs of reasonable salaries, equipment, etc. and insurance companies should be only an option for the wealthy. In countries with universal healthcare, the wealthy can pay more for private insurance. The government's insurance should only make the profit necessary to cover its costs of operating; it should not make a profit off the American people who will die without it.
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Old 01-08-2019, 02:10 PM
 
5,909 posts, read 13,493,633 times
Reputation: 3191
As for SALT. Yes. It was an attack on the blue states whether directly or indirectly. Just because politicians didn't say "Hey f you blue states" they clearly knew what the outcomes would be and at minimum were completely indifferent or at most were seeking this outcome.
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Old 01-08-2019, 03:03 PM
 
Location: NJ
23,125 posts, read 29,097,510 times
Reputation: 14985
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431 View Post
Health care should NOT be a for-profit industry.
should food be a for profit industry? how about housing? how about clothing? being for profit is a good thing. however, that can get screwed up generally by government. profit doesnt increase your overall cost. things typically cost more in a non-profit.
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