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Old 04-24-2019, 12:03 PM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,669,041 times
Reputation: 24590

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Or have the money to pay for. That's the thing with a "public transportation" system. It's supposed to be accessible to the public. That means affordable, too. If taking public transportation becomes more expensive than driving a personal vehicle, it kind of kills the whole idea.
if public transportation is more expensive than driving; then someone else should probably be managing it.
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Old 04-24-2019, 01:46 PM
 
8,256 posts, read 17,334,908 times
Reputation: 6225
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
if public transportation is more expensive than driving; then someone else should probably be managing it.
Or government agencies that emphasize car travel over public transit should be shaken up and replaced with pro public transit employees. Cars should be a luxury, not a necessity. However, the US as a whole has made cars a necessity. Public transit needs to stop being seen as a program for the poor, and rather as a viable means of transportation. Instead of building new highways and expanding lanes and making it easier to drive, put that money into public transit. An interchange gets too congested? Normal answer in the US is "expand the interchange and add more lanes and make it look all swoopy and aerial." However, that should be our cue that "hey this area has a big demand for people so maybe we should expand public transit to this area." Create more bus only lanes all over. I.e. Hudson County and Newark should be full of bus only lanes that are divided from the general flow of traffic. I.e. All bridges and tunnels into NYC should has at least one bus only lane. Once we ensure all tunnels under the Hudson aren't going to collapse, the next goal should be to build a new tunnel for rail only.

There are so many ways that NJ can emphasize public transit over vehicular travel, but too many people running the government don't even take public transit, so how could they ever understand the needs of transit riders? Until higher levels of governments are reshaped to emphasize public transit over vehicles, the US always look regressive to the rest of the world. I mean if developing countries can build more subways than the wealthiest nation on Earth, maybe we're doing something wrong. Just sayin.
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Old 04-24-2019, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,509 posts, read 84,673,021 times
Reputation: 114946
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
if public transportation is more expensive than driving; then someone else should probably be managing it.
That's usually the airy, non-thinking response of someone with no connection to or knowledge of public transportation, but frankly, if it were that easy to fix just by "managing" it, why aren't you applying for the job? Or at least imparting your wisdom to the people who have been working with public transportation systems all their lives and somehow are missing this easy fix that you are so confident exists.

Sorry, but infrastructure, facilities, and equipment deteriorate and become outdated and have to be replaced and upgraded, and it costs huge amounts of money. Most of the time the problem is because the people who make the decisions on what and when things get upgraded or even kept in a state of good repair are politicians and those who are appointed by them. The problem is therefore those people whose asses you elbow and shove others out of the way to kiss because you fell starry-eyed for their campaign promises. Each one of them kicks the can down the road for their successor to handle, and then we end up with a mess that needs an even bigger fix.

The NYCTA sector of the MTA is now headed up by very capable management, a person who oversaw the upgrade of the Toronto and Sydney public transportation systems. Andy Byford was tapped because of his talents in those areas and has great ideas for fixing the subway and bus system, but he isn't going to be able to do jack without the money to do it.

Charging people who drive chunks of change for the privilege of driving into horrendous traffic congestion probably isn't the best way to pay for what's needed, and it's certainly not "fair", but if you know of a better way besides making silly faces and saying "let the poor slobs who can't afford to drive and need it most pay for it, yulk yulk yulk", you should probably share it with the city and state.
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Old 04-24-2019, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,509 posts, read 84,673,021 times
Reputation: 114946
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431 View Post
Or government agencies that emphasize car travel over public transit should be shaken up and replaced with pro public transit employees. Cars should be a luxury, not a necessity. However, the US as a whole has made cars a necessity. Public transit needs to stop being seen as a program for the poor, and rather as a viable means of transportation. Instead of building new highways and expanding lanes and making it easier to drive, put that money into public transit. An interchange gets too congested? Normal answer in the US is "expand the interchange and add more lanes and make it look all swoopy and aerial." However, that should be our cue that "hey this area has a big demand for people so maybe we should expand public transit to this area." Create more bus only lanes all over. I.e. Hudson County and Newark should be full of bus only lanes that are divided from the general flow of traffic. I.e. All bridges and tunnels into NYC should has at least one bus only lane. Once we ensure all tunnels under the Hudson aren't going to collapse, the next goal should be to build a new tunnel for rail only.

There are so many ways that NJ can emphasize public transit over vehicular travel, but too many people running the government don't even take public transit, so how could they ever understand the needs of transit riders? Until higher levels of governments are reshaped to emphasize public transit over vehicles, the US always look regressive to the rest of the world. I mean if developing countries can build more subways than the wealthiest nation on Earth, maybe we're doing something wrong. Just sayin.
Ding ding ding!!!!
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Old 04-24-2019, 02:04 PM
 
8,256 posts, read 17,334,908 times
Reputation: 6225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
That's usually the airy, non-thinking response of someone with no connection to or knowledge of public transportation, but frankly, if it were that easy to fix just by "managing" it, why aren't you applying for the job? Or at least imparting your wisdom to the people who have been working with public transportation systems all their lives and somehow are missing this easy fix that you are so confident exists.

Sorry, but infrastructure, facilities, and equipment deteriorate and become outdated and have to be replaced and upgraded, and it costs huge amounts of money. Most of the time the problem is because the people who make the decisions on what and when things get upgraded or even kept in a state of good repair are politicians and those who are appointed by them. The problem is therefore those people whose asses you elbow and shove others out of the way to kiss because you fell starry-eyed for their campaign promises. Each one of them kicks the can down the road for their successor to handle, and then we end up with a mess that needs an even bigger fix.

The NYCTA sector of the MTA is now headed up by very capable management, a person who oversaw the upgrade of the Toronto and Sydney public transportation systems. Andy Byford was tapped because of his talents in those areas and has great ideas for fixing the subway and bus system, but he isn't going to be able to do jack without the money to do it.

Charging people who drive chunks of change for the privilege of driving into horrendous traffic congestion probably isn't the best way to pay for what's needed, and it's certainly not "fair", but if you know of a better way besides making silly faces and saying "let the poor slobs who can't afford to drive and need it most pay for it, yulk yulk yulk", you should probably share it with the city and state.
Stop voting Republican at the federal level so the federal government is more willing to invest in public transportation. I mean...just look at the fight for the Gateway Tunnel and the federal government's indifference to Amtrak's problems. If they refuse to invest in their own transit, why in the world would they give funding to transit systems they don't own. And with the current vindictiveness of Republicans, they'll never give states like NYC and NJ the money they need for good and safe transit. Republicans tried to stop the region from getting federal aid after Sandy and little has been done to help Puerto Rico after the hurricanes destroyed it. All in a vindictive manner because we didn't vote for the President nor do we elect members to Congress that have an "R" after their name. McConnell would likely not vote for a single cent of funding be sent this way were the tunnels into Manhattan to collapse because we oppose him and the President. Vindictive and mean people. All of them.

If our tax money actually went to good projects like public transit (instead of pay increases that Congress gives itself and paying off hookers and abortions and giving military contracts to donor buddies), we wouldn't have to rely so heavily on the fares collected. If the rest of the world can do it, we can too.
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Old 04-24-2019, 03:32 PM
 
2,669 posts, read 2,088,841 times
Reputation: 3690
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431 View Post
Stop voting Republican at the federal level so the federal government is more willing to invest in public transportation. I mean...just look at the fight for the Gateway Tunnel and the federal government's indifference to Amtrak's problems. If they refuse to invest in their own transit, why in the world would they give funding to transit systems they don't own. And with the current vindictiveness of Republicans, they'll never give states like NYC and NJ the money they need for good and safe transit. Republicans tried to stop the region from getting federal aid after Sandy and little has been done to help Puerto Rico after the hurricanes destroyed it. All in a vindictive manner because we didn't vote for the President nor do we elect members to Congress that have an "R" after their name. McConnell would likely not vote for a single cent of funding be sent this way were the tunnels into Manhattan to collapse because we oppose him and the President. Vindictive and mean people. All of them.

If our tax money actually went to good projects like public transit (instead of pay increases that Congress gives itself and paying off hookers and abortions and giving military contracts to donor buddies), we wouldn't have to rely so heavily on the fares collected. If the rest of the world can do it, we can too.
Exactly, agree 100%
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Old 04-24-2019, 03:38 PM
 
2,669 posts, read 2,088,841 times
Reputation: 3690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
That's usually the airy, non-thinking response of someone with no connection to or knowledge of public transportation, but frankly, if it were that easy to fix just by "managing" it, why aren't you applying for the job? Or at least imparting your wisdom to the people who have been working with public transportation systems all their lives and somehow are missing this easy fix that you are so confident exists.

Sorry, but infrastructure, facilities, and equipment deteriorate and become outdated and have to be replaced and upgraded, and it costs huge amounts of money. Most of the time the problem is because the people who make the decisions on what and when things get upgraded or even kept in a state of good repair are politicians and those who are appointed by them. The problem is therefore those people whose asses you elbow and shove others out of the way to kiss because you fell starry-eyed for their campaign promises. Each one of them kicks the can down the road for their successor to handle, and then we end up with a mess that needs an even bigger fix.
It is actually not always true that maintenance and upgrades are extremely expensive iff they are done in a timely manner. On the other hand, deferred maintenance creates huge risks and major expensive repairs. Kind of like what we seen after moron Chrsity left the office.

“Something is rotten in the state of Denmark”.
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Old 04-24-2019, 04:04 PM
 
Location: NJ
23,529 posts, read 17,205,480 times
Reputation: 17556
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431 View Post
Stop voting Republican at the federal level so the federal government is more willing to invest in public transportation. I mean...just look at the fight for the Gateway Tunnel and the federal government's indifference to Amtrak's problems. If they refuse to invest in their own transit, why in the world would they give funding to transit systems they don't own. And with the current vindictiveness of Republicans, they'll never give states like NYC and NJ the money they need for good and safe transit. Republicans tried to stop the region from getting federal aid after Sandy and little has been done to help Puerto Rico after the hurricanes destroyed it. All in a vindictive manner because we didn't vote for the President nor do we elect members to Congress that have an "R" after their name. McConnell would likely not vote for a single cent of funding be sent this way were the tunnels into Manhattan to collapse because we oppose him and the President. Vindictive and mean people. All of them.

If our tax money actually went to good projects like public transit (instead of pay increases that Congress gives itself and paying off hookers and abortions and giving military contracts to donor buddies), we wouldn't have to rely so heavily on the fares collected. If the rest of the world can do it, we can too.
light rail is the dems panacea to every issue.


Got news for you, not everyone needs to travel to NYC from NJ.


PR was in shambles long before the storms hit. Fema is there to help recover from natural disasters, not rebuild nations.


Trump wants to do infrastructure projects, dems refuse to work with him.


infrastructure projects are characterized by galactic cost and time overruns and the officials who provide such lowball estimates never pay the price. it is as if the estimates are kept low to make the project palatable to the taxpayers.


Applaud CC for halting the tunnel project before it bled taxpayers dry as did the big dig in MA and the light rail in CA.


You want to go to NYC so bad, then move there.
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Old 04-24-2019, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,509 posts, read 84,673,021 times
Reputation: 114946
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefiantNJ View Post
It is actually not always true that maintenance and upgrades are extremely expensive iff they are done in a timely manner. On the other hand, deferred maintenance creates huge risks and major expensive repairs. Kind of like what we seen after moron Chrsity left the office.

“Something is rotten in the state of Denmark”.
Yes, that's what I meant by kicking the can down the road.

Look at the Newark Airport monorail. It was built to last 25 years and just about at the end of its useful life and will have to be replaced, which won't happen for five years. They'll just do a few bandaids to keep it going until then.

But people shriek, "Oh noes, why did 'they' not build a better system in the first place", blah blah blah, failing to realize that the 'they' who made that decision are long gone.
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Old 04-24-2019, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,509 posts, read 84,673,021 times
Reputation: 114946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kracer View Post
light rail is the dems panacea to every issue.


Got news for you, not everyone needs to travel to NYC from NJ.


PR was in shambles long before the storms hit. Fema is there to help recover from natural disasters, not rebuild nations.


Trump wants to do infrastructure projects, dems refuse to work with him.


infrastructure projects are characterized by galactic cost and time overruns and the officials who provide such lowball estimates never pay the price. it is as if the estimates are kept low to make the project palatable to the taxpayers.


Applaud CC for halting the tunnel project before it bled taxpayers dry as did the big dig in MA and the light rail in CA.


You want to go to NYC so bad, then move there.
That's not an "as if", that's what happens. That's the cost of the project if everything goes smoothly and perfectly, but that's never going to happen in reality. Reality doesn't garner votes.
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