Does New Jersey really have too many school districts? (Union: health insurance, house)

[Bored2Day]

Originally Posted by desertsun41

This is what I mean.

Yea yea yea.....we all have important jobs, but not as important as a teacher. I wondered how long before another teacher whined about how hard they work for no money. This thread is about NJ teachers and the NJ schools. I dont know where you are from but NJ teachers are among the highest paid on earth. For some time after the clown Tom Kean with a wife as a teacher was the head clown, NJ was the highest.

Most of us can only dream of making what teachers make and oh the bennies????? Yikes !!

Abolish the Teachers Union today !!! Save NJ.

desertsun your comment is pathetic. Maybe if you had better teachers you would get it. NJ salaries in general are among the highest as is the cost of living. Not just for teachers. In comparison, by level of college performing in different occupations, the salaries are lower for teachers. I am not trying to over praise my work I am just trying to show you that we deserve what we make. Your argument is getting old. You are wrong - plain and simple

[emanon]

Originally Posted by Bored2Day

desertsun your comment is pathetic. Maybe if you had better teachers you would get it. NJ salaries in general are among the highest as is the cost of living. Not just for teachers. In comparison, by level of college performing in different occupations, the salaries are lower for teachers. I am not trying to over praise my work I am just trying to show you that we deserve what we make. Your argument is getting old. You are wrong - plain and simple

Yes NJ teachers do deserve the salaries they receive but they should also be paying at least 50% of their health care costs and they should also be contributing 100% to their retirement fund. Most teachers who are the primary wage earners probably work full time in the summer so they do make a nice living in NJ.

E

[emanon]

Originally Posted by BobKovacs

So how do states like NC, GA, etc., make it work then? They have county-wide districts, and it works just fine.

Why would you not want one personnel department, one payroll department, one purchasing department, etc., in place of 20 of each? Imagine taking 20 current systems, and having a standard curriculum across all of them, rather than 20 different districts all thinking they've got the best idea. Next, allow one department to hire teachers for all of the schools, eliminating the need for 20 individual "personnel administrators" and the associated positions. Now, let one group process payroll for all of these employees, instead of having 20 departments, each having to gather payroll data, submit all of the withholding payments, coordinate benefits deductions, and perform audits- think of the efficiencies there. Then, allow that district to buy books and supplies for thousands of students, rather than each buying different supplies/books in smaller quantities- don't you think they'd get better rates? Even if the total number of "administrators" (superintendents, principals, etc) stayed the same, the savings just in the support functions would be staggering- it's like how Home Depot and Walmart can be so much more efficient than the local mom-and-pop stores (not necessarily the perfect example, but you get the idea).

The inefficiencies in the "home-rule" system are absurd, and Newark is by no means a good example to point to for anything- especially an efficient school system.........

Bob, you are right on with those comments. Abolish home rule and we will have a much better school system.

E

[desertsun41]

Originally Posted by Bored2Day

desertsun your comment is pathetic. Maybe if you had better teachers you would get it. NJ salaries in general are among the highest as is the cost of living. Not just for teachers. In comparison, by level of college performing in different occupations, the salaries are lower for teachers. I am not trying to over praise my work I am just trying to show you that we deserve what we make. Your argument is getting old. You are wrong - plain and simple

No your argument is getting old. When was the last time you heard a Carpenter or Mechanic or ANY profession/tradesman publicly and out loud complain about how hard they work and how little they get paid? Never. We all work hard and we all are underpaid. Except government employees and union workers. My point was that teachers and especially your union are the biggest whiners on earth.

NJ has way too many school districts and way way too many overpaid turkeys. And the kids turn out no better.

[Bored2Day]

Originally Posted by emanon

Yes NJ teachers do deserve the salaries they receive but they should also be paying at least 50% of their health care costs and they should also be contributing 100% to their retirement fund. Most teachers who are the primary wage earners probably work full time in the summer so they do make a nice living in NJ.

E

It is not easy for someone in their 40's or 50's to find a summer job. Can't see myself competing with the college crowd to lifeguard or work down the shore. We find work to get by but by no means do we do well in the summer. I worked in an office in the accounting deepartment for many years prior to returning to school in my 30's to teach. I never paid 50% of my medical insurance then. Why should I now? If that is the case for you - you should have checked out the benefits package at your work prior to accepting the position. There are also many other professions that are fighting to keep their pension - it will probably be gone by the time we retire so we are all paying into our retirment plans. It was one of the factors in making the decision to work in a state position. You could have made the same choice. Why bash teachers?

[Bored2Day]

Originally Posted by desertsun41

No your argument is getting old. When was the last time you heard a Carpenter or Mechanic or ANY profession/tradesman publicly and out loud complain about how hard they work and how little they get paid? Never. We all work hard and we all are underpaid. Except government employees and union workers. My point was that teachers and especially your union are the biggest whiners on earth.

NJ has way too many school districts and way way too many overpaid turkeys. And the kids turn out no better.

I was married to a carpenter for 12 years. I actually built decks with him in the summer time to help out. We lived in South Carolina. It was hot-hard work - I'd love to complain about that for a while, but I did look good with my tan and great work out every day. My father was a mechanic. They both actually made pretty good money but did work very hard. I love them both and got to hear them complain how hard they work every night. They just never were confronted like teachers and put in a position to have to defend themselves so others would not hear them whine. YOU back us up against a wall and then complain when we defend ourselves.

I love and respect men who work hard every day. I wouldn't insult your work.

[1st2marryinMASS]

To Syncmaster et al.,

The method of ranking pupils per district is sound enough to draw likely conclusions. I agree with these, and here's why. The states closer to the bottom of the listing are those that, in general, have school districts by county or parish (LA). Hawaii has the greatest number of students per district because the entire state is a SINGLE school district with one employment contract for all teachers on all islands and in all schools across the island chain.
In NJ, the school districts are almost exclusively based on local municipalities where the concern is the autonomy of the municipality regarding its schools. There are, in fact, several towns that do not have A SINGLE school in its corporation limits, but has an elected school board with a superintendent and a business administrator! Check out Victory Gardens in Morris County as an example. To answer the posting's question, "Are there too many school districts in NJ?" YES! County wide districts may not the answer, but consolidation of smaller districts can be a step in the right direction.
For many years Caldwell and West Caldwell, South Orange and Maplewood are each two towns that combine resources into one K-12 district. It works for them. The regional high school districts such as West Essex Regional serve the 9-12 needs or Fairfield, Essex Fells and North Caldwell. But, each of these towns has its own K-8 district. If there is a regional high school district, then consolidation into a TRUE regional K-12 district for these three townships should be next. The same goes for Lakeland Regional, Passaic Valley Regional, and Manchester Regional is Passaic County.
These regional high schools are found all over the state and can be the first to consolidate...but by legislative action. This WILL NOT come from the township electorate. Each larger, single district will have ONE superintendent, ONE business administrator, and ONE board of education. This can save $100,000s, but also provide a single curriculum for 1000s of students aligned to the NJ Core Curriculum Content Standards to plan for student success on high-stakes assessments (NJASK3, NJASK4, NJASK5, GEPA, HSPA, and the new May '08 End of Course Test for Biology) and shared services, transportation, in-district special education programs and text books, etc. to run an efficient district.
Townspeople may want to keep that autonomy, but they also want to decrease property taxes. Voting the school budgets down may give the allusion of success for those most concerned about taxes. But, it is NOT the long-term answer and it is not in the best interest of the students who are the future of NJ's and America's society.

[emanon]

Originally Posted by Bored2Day

It is not easy for someone in their 40's or 50's to find a summer job. Can't see myself competing with the college crowd to lifeguard or work down the shore. We find work to get by but by no means do we do well in the summer. I worked in an office in the accounting deepartment for many years prior to returning to school in my 30's to teach. I never paid 50% of my medical insurance then. Why should I now? If that is the case for you - you should have checked out the benefits package at your work prior to accepting the position. There are also many other professions that are fighting to keep their pension - it will probably be gone by the time we retire so we are all paying into our retirment plans. It was one of the factors in making the decision to work in a state position. You could have made the same choice. Why bash teachers?

You never paid for medical benifets so welcome to the real world. I was self employed before I retired and for 20 years I paid about $1,500 a month for medical ins. with no dental. After the kids left home I got a break and paid $1,000 a month. Now the I am on SS I get a great deal and only pay about $500. a month. You people who get cheap medical benifets don't know how much they are really worth.I also did not get a pension from some company only the IRA that I contributed to 100%. Nobody kicked in for my retirement and I am a little tired of having to be taxed to pay for public employee benifits and retirement funds.

Yes teachers do deserve to be payed well but not for lifetime at my expense.

E

[1st2marryinMASS]

The statistics on districts including ratios for administrators to students, teacher to students, etc. can be found on the NJ Department of Education website. Either search for "Report Card Data" or click on the icon "Parents and Students" on the left of the homepage and go from there for Report Card information. More than you really want to know about is all there!

[Bored2Day]

Originally Posted by emanon

You never paid for medical benifets so welcome to the real world. I was self employed before I retired and for 20 years I paid about $1,500 a month for medical ins. with no dental. After the kids left home I got a break and paid $1,000 a month. Now the I am on SS I get a great deal and only pay about $500. a month. You people who get cheap medical benifets don't know how much they are really worth.I also did not get a pension from some company only the IRA that I contributed to 100%. Nobody kicked in for my retirement and I am a little tired of having to be taxed to pay for public employee benifits and retirement funds.

Yes teachers do deserve to be payed well but not for lifetime at my expense.

E

As a matter of fact I did pay for my own insurance when I first moved to South Carolina. We were a family of five. My husband had his own construction business and our insurance was through the roof. I do not remember just how much but it was more than my mortgage. That is why I went back to school to get a job with good benefits. There were not a lot of office work options where I was. Like I said in another post - maybe you should have looked into benefits BEFORE choosing your career. It's not my fault.